Bushcraft courses or not?

[stuart f]

Hi all,I,ve been mulling this over for a while now and i was interested what your opinions are on the subject.

So my question is do you think its essential to go on a bushcraft course,so as to say i,m qualified now i,ve done a course?.

I think what i,m trying to get at is this,is somebody who,s been on a course better qualified than somebody who has self taught themselves i,e read books,watched tv, asked questions on a website such as here.

I have never been on a course and have self taught myself through the medium above mentioned,i,e i can light fire by friction,build debris shelters and can even carve a spoon etc. Ok i suppose i would have learned quicker if i had done a course but,i enjoyed the challenge on myself.

Now i,m not decrying courses its just that it never entered my head to go on one,but i,ve noticed that on some schools they say that you can,t attend advanced classes unless you,ve done a basic one with them first,i know this is probably more to do with insurance than qualifications. I would like to go more advanced but to do that i,d probably have to go on a basic one first.

So have i gone about it the wrong way by teaching myself,your thoughts please.

 

[Adi007]

So have i gone about it the wrong way by teaching myself,your thoughts please.

It worked for the human race up until now

As someone not really pro-courses, here'smy take on things ...

As someone who is pretty much self-taught but who has been on courses I feel that even the best course it like a good movie - it's a great ride but quite soon you forget what you saw. For example, you can learn more about lighting a fire by going out into the garden every night for a week in each season and lighting a fire than I think you can from a single course. Same for most other outdoor activities.

Courses are useful but then again so are books - they are passive, you can pick them up at any point, you get a variety of opinions and they don't answer you back when you question or criticize what they say ):

If you have access to a place to do "bushcraft" in you are ahead of the game already - this is something that limits most people.

And there's the price ... bottom line I've spent weekends away where I've practiced and learned skills for free that would have cost me a lot of money. I shall leave the cost aspect at that because it seems to make people too emotional ...

I think if you are self-motivated, willing to put in the time and possibly have someone else around you that shares your interest that wants to join in then I think that teaching yourself is a great way to learn.

Self-learning is great! :chill:

 

[steve a]

I don't think you have gone about it the wrong way at all, each to their own.Some people would take the view that they like the self taught route so follow that path, for others either they like going on courses to get the information/skill passed to them in a concise quick way, either way the final awnser to most skills is practice and more practice. Self learning and practice is a route I have gone down for some aspects i.e. plant i.d., navigation etc but also I have been on courses for a variety of reasons such as access to woodlands, meet new people, etc.
As for not allowing you to attend an advanced school without doing a basic course, if you speak to the school and have a chat with them directly I am sure that provided you have the basic skills and could convince them you could get on the advanced class, most of the time they put this in so they do not have to go over the safe knife use,shelter building, fire by friction etc again and so waste peoples time.
In short, there are many paths that you can follow,follow the one best for you.

 

[Ed]

Now i,m not decrying courses its just that it never entered my head to go on one,but i,ve noticed that on some schools they say that you can,t attend advanced classes unless you,ve done a basic one with them first,i know this is probably more to do with insurance than qualifications. I would like to go more advanced but to do that i,d probably have to go on a basic one first.

Actually if you give them a ring and have a chat there is normally no problem with going on advanced courses with out doing the prequisite. Its just to make sure that you are not out of your depth and will be able to cope with the more advanced topics covered.

:biggthump
Ed

 

[tenbears10]

I don't think one way is better than the other. People learn in different ways. Some will get most benefit from a course where you are shown first hand and can ask questions others will learn better at their own pace dictated by a book which, as Adi says, is always there to go back to.

I think most courses will be happy to let you on an advanced course if you can show that you have the skills they require just gained from another source. Many of the forces people on here may never have been on a bushcraft course but would be quite capable of an advanced course, for example.

The clause is often put in there to stop people overstreaching their knowledge by siging up for a difficult course first time out and holding back the rest of the group.

Bill

 

[match]

I would generally say that self-learning is the best way - but having a resource like BCUK is excellent too - lets you know what ways others have tried, and can give you good recommendations on where to start!

For me, the only course I have done is one on fire by friction, and only after I had tried and failed to get it started by myself. It turned out that it was all to do with body posture and speeds/pressure in my case, but if I didn't have that interaction with someone who could step back and say 'try doing this instead' I would probably still be struggling with piles of brown sawdust! Saying that though, it didn't need to be a course that gave me this skill - it just happened that there was a course in something that I wanted to learn, and that no-one I knew socially could help me with for free

 

[jamesdevine]

Having been on a course and I intend to do more I have benefited from them. But as Adi has said you do forget more them you remeber it is still an oppurtunity to learn while spending time doing bushcraft with like minded people that makes enjoyable. I have learnt loads more from books, TV and off course here so I would be in favour of both sides.

You won't learn everything about bushcraft on a course or in books you have spend the time practising and experimenting(somthing I need to more off) yourself in order to learn everything.

Also not all school require you have done a previous course if you can proof you have the basic skills ie. you can make fire by friction and shelters etc. that would have been covered in the basic course more often then not it's simply to ensure everyone is roughly on the same page at the start of adavanced course.

James

 

[TheViking]

Personally I believe that if you have a good area to bushcraft in, then there's no problem and you can do it everyday or weekend. Some courses are very expensive, but may also be very educational. As Adi says a book, won't answer you again, if you question what it says.
I taught myself fire by friction from Essential Bushcraft and then of course all the guys on here who helped asking my questions! ack: And i'm only 15. :shock:

Perhaps some people would have a tendency to learn to directly from what an instructor says? If you teach yourself, maybe one would find out different ways of doing this and that. :?:
I have teached myself almost all the way. Dad has never teached me anything directly bushcrafty, nor has anyone else.

My thoughts.

 

[stuart f]

I think another question is ,can we go advanced by self learning or do you have to at some point take a course with a school?

cheers for the replys there,s some good food for thought already.

keep em coming.

 

[Ed]

is somebody who,s been on a course better qualified than somebody who has self taught themselves i,e read books,watched tv, asked questions on a website such as here.

In a word no.

Expierence is the key here..... its more like a meritocracy.... if you can do it ... you can do it... no matter how you learned it If you were heading off to the desert who would be the most qualified to take with you, someone who has done all the courses and spent some time there or a local bedu who's never done a course in his life?

I have never been on a bushcraft course, but have been lucky enough to get alot of practice in alot of interesting places. Most of my knowlege came from people who I traveled with or other interesting folk I met along the way..... I have guest instructed on a couple of courses but never attended one as a student, and now being a qualified teacher I pass those skills on to others.

Practice, practice, practice to hone those skills.... thats the key. People can show you things and you can ask questions but in the end its you that has to put the work in to get the skills up to standard.


Ed

 

[whitebuffalo]

StuartF define advanced?

Most advanced courses I have heard of just involve you going to a site to do a little bit my training and then your sent off with a few bits of kit to sit out the week.

You can spend a lot of money to go and do something you could do for free in your back gardem!!

The only difference between self training and courses is that on a course if you run into a problem someone is there to answer it. Having said that I have attended a fundamental course and been given totally duff information and when challenged the instructor, a guy called Lawrence, just shrugged his shoulders and walked off, so those who he had mis-taught actually learnt nothing.

The above highlighted statement is a malicious lie fabricated by Gary of Bearclaw Bushcraft while using two forum identities for self promotion and making slanderous statements. I have had to apologise to a number of people for these occurrences and also need to leave these examples in case of any future legal proceedings relating to this slander.

I can state categorically that Gary was never on a course with Lawrence and therefore the exchange depicted above could never have taken place…

Once again my apologies to all involved.
Tony
All things being equal I think basic courses are pretty good as these give you foundations upon which to build while advance courses in many repsects or just money for old rope.

 

[Buckshot]

I think the main thing courses give you is time.
You can pick something up on a course that may take years to perfect on your own.

The other thing that's nice sometimes is when you teach yourself something, and then go on a course. It's really satisfying when the teacher does the exact same thing as you do. :super: but you worked it out for yourself!!!

I think each has it's place.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Carcajou Garou]

One of the basic learning tools we have is observation ie.(apprentiship) Taking a structured course allows you to see the practicle application of skills and different ways of achieving those skills under a controllled environment. Most people do not have the modern luxury of time to aquire a multitude of skills needed for bushcrafting, so a course allows them a short cut of exposure to these skills... now this is where most people get mixed up;
re: courses equal skill and experience. Courses give you a starting point to apply your experience at mastering a skill, consider the repeated attempts (failures and solutions) to a skill as your homework the more you practise the better and more effecient you will have at that skill. The more skills you achieve the faster your learning curve will be as you will exercise your problem solving abilities at the same time and you will be able to think outside of the box of knowledge that you presently have. More repeated exposure will bring a quicker and possibly more varied approach to skill aquisition. Keep on experimenting on your own. People think that a course is only the structured organised outing in a group, every time someone takes the time to teach you the foundations of a new skill or a variation of a pre-existing skill you are on a "course". Aboriginal people call these "teachings" and usually a small gift is given to acknowledge the respect to the "teacher" usually an elder, ie. we use tobacco, small teaching a pipeful of tobacco or cigarette, big teaching a pouch of tobacco, really big teaching a harvest of food items etc.... This also develops community and interaction between members as to support.
don't re-invent the wheel see a wheelwright and learn improve on that idea.
just a thought

 

[leon-1]

I think the main thing courses give you is time.
You can pick something up on a course that may take years to perfect on your own.

The other thing that's nice sometimes is when you teach yourself something, and then go on a course. It's really satisfying when the teacher does the exact same thing as you do. :super: but you worked it out for yourself!!!

I think each has it's place.

Cheers

Mark

I think that you have it there in a nutshell, sometimes you just "cannot get it right" and it will be a small fundamental flaw.

A lot of techniques are passed down father to son/daughter, but others are easily enough self taught given time and practice.

In todays world a lot of people do not have the time, but if you have the time and resource to do it then why not.

I also agree with Ed :biggthump that to have done a course does not make you any better than having been self taught, this shows ingenuity and tenacity, which I think are a couple of the best aspects of bushcrafters, but if you have done a course afterwards you will still have to practice and this is where having done a course, to being someone that practices bushcraft whenever they can is the difference.

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Bushcraft, wilderness survival, primative skills; whatever you call our outdoor pursuits has spawned a growing industry from backpacks to tours into the Himalayan foothills. The ' Guru- instructor ' giving courses is a natural and expected result. How relevant, or capable that instruction is depends on the consumer. Note I did not say student. Students are immediately lower on the foodchain and packranking in far to many courses where egos, politics,philosophies etc. are in the agenda. A consumer has the power of the pocketbook. Ask questions, qualifications, refund policy etc. The good people are businessmen and also personable. If they shy from these queries run away,run away faster than Monty Python. Do not be afraid of somebody who may seem 'out there' either. there is a 'New Age' community in Arizona. I'm not exactly of that persuasion, or interest. However, Peter Bigfoot is one of the finest instructors and loving people I have ever known. Workedfor me after growing weary of the cammie clad survivalists and wannabee Clan of The Cavebear snake eaters.

 

[Moine]

Chris,

Aren't you a little bitter here? It's true that one must choose his instructor wisely (as with everything you pay for), but charlatans and wannabes are not a majority (yet) in this profession... at least not IMHO.

Over here in France, there is hardly enough demand to keep one instructor busy full time (I know that ). I have to keep on making web sites and doing other things to be able to feed my kids right now. That's not an interesting piece of steak for charlatans... That might be different elsewhere, of course.

To answer the original question: IMO, no. You don't need an official course and a diploma to be good at bushcraft/survival. BUT you can't learn that in the books and on the net alone. You do need to go out an DO it. Schools are merely a way to do that stuff more or less safely, while speeding up the learning process a little. IMO, someone who attented a course once in their lives and think they're ready are misleaded. The average rural kid who's out in the bush lighting fires and building huts every night after school will be much better at it than the sedentary adult with his nice survival school diploma and 300$ never used sebbies, all-dressed kits and fat backpacks...

Just my opinion,

David

 

[RovingArcher]

I feel that even the greatest of the bushcraft teachers is still a student and is continually learning better ways to do their craft. So, if you are up for watching and learning how others do their skills, it can only help to improve upon yours.

 

[Kim]

If you want bushcraft type skills to be part of your life, it's up to you to use them as often as you can and build on them. Courses can be extremely useful in pointing you in the right direction, and introducing you under guidance to new skills, but the rest is up to you.

 

[Gary]

Well SAID Kim.

Students often come to me half slef trained, for instance being able to get smoke but not a coal in fire drill, and it is usually a small point to correct a error of technique or positioning to get them over that last hurdle, and this is where going on a course comes into its own.

There are many experienced instructors out there who can help you over these small hurdles, self taught is fantastic and a great achievement but when you come to a problem only expert guidance can solve it.

A last defence for courses also is the social side of things, as long as the course isnt overly boring or run like a boot camp, you can get to spend time with like minded folk, chat about kit and so forth and as have happened so often make new friends who will be friends for a long long time to come. Self training on the other hand (in my experience) usually means striving alone with no-one to share your success or failure with.

The next best thing, and in some ways a better thing than a course would be a club but at present these are few and far between.

 

[tomtom]

Well said Gary

small point to correct a error of technique or positioning to get them over that last hurdle, and this is where going on a course comes into its own

That pretty much the position i was in when i took up my first course.. we didn't do anything i had not done before, but i did help me to master those things which books and working alone had not managed to teach me!

and of course its great to meet people who have the same interest.. they do tend to be few and far between all to often!

i would say if you can afford/have time to do it then go for it.. you are always learning in bushcraft so it can only help!