Bushcraft Beginnings - Fire.
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Success, everyone, I've managed to mod the spine of my mora knife for use with my firesteel. An amateur attempt, but it works better than I expected.
Enjoy the video.
[video=youtube;kFA4S5NlU2A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFA4S5NlU2A[/video]
Enjoy the video.
[video=youtube;kFA4S5NlU2A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFA4S5NlU2A[/video]
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So with the knife mod success my next firecraft challenge will be to light some charcloth and transfer that to a tinder bundle. I haven't blown in to a tinder bundle before since I've just used birch bark which lights automatically and then put that under kindling. I reckon it'll be easier than my experience with birch bark though. I forgot to mention or post pictures, but I actually made a few bits of charcloth a few days ago. I just forgot to update the thread.
No problem Pete, I see what you mean.
Charcloth -- well, good charcloth -- is great stuff. Just a tip, don't use too much. The sparks you're throwing now will ignite enough charcloth to start the Blitz, and once charcloth is going it can be hard to put out without making a real mess of it (it just turns to powder) so you end up wasting it.
Charcloth is basically finely divided carbon. Being carbon it doesn't really burn with a flame, like cotton wool or paper does, and it isn't meant to. It sort of glows and smoulders, but when it does that it produces a great deal of heat which will light almost anything you're likely to use as tinder when you put the two in contact and blow. Take a deep breath (try not to inhale the smoke!) and blow gently for a long time. Have fun!
From watching your videos, it seems like your rod and striker arent working to well together, I have a swedish fire steel that works effortlessly, one of the things I noticed was that your striker doesnt seem to bite the steel much but slides along it, I would be inclined to either see if the striker works better if you try turning it over so you are using a different bevel or just modify it by using a file and filing the edge slightly off square so that it gives you a slight angle, failing that go down to tisos or some other rip of merchant and buy the swedish fire steel, I used one and it works just perfect with no effort straight out of the box.
Hth.
Mat
Ps before you all say it. Ferocium rod not fire steel.
Hth.
Mat
Ps before you all say it. Ferocium rod not fire steel.
I'm planning to try char cloth/tinder bundle ignition for the first time tonight. I've collected two different types of grasses. Speaking to SWright, he prefers the thicker, straw-like grass, but I think I've seen the grass type on the right used a bit more. I'm new to the whole tinder bundle, blow into ignition thing. As I said, I've only ever created fire from sparks to flame, not ember to flame, so which one should I use, BCUK?
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I'm planning to try char cloth/tinder bundle ignition for the first time tonight. I've collected two different types of grasses. Speaking to SWright, he prefers the thicker, straw-like grass, but I think I've seen the grass type on the right used a bit more. Which one should I use, BCUK?
Be a devil and try a mixture of both! One may help the other.
As long as its properly dry either will be fine but the one on the right will have a larger surface area so therefore be easier
Hello, everyone. Here's the report of my third(successful) fire and first tinder bundle ignition attempt.
The setup: two grass bundles, firesteel, mora knife, and charcloth.
Sorting the fuel.
There are three main problems that have become apparent in this latest attempt, but I think they can be solved quite easily. First is the curious problem with my charcloth's reaction to the sparks of my firesteel... I certainly got sparks on to the cloth, but the embers just didn't hold. For some strange reason the embers died out after a second. I would ask if the fault lies somewhere with the levels of carbonisation of the charcloth, but you'll see that the charcloth did in fact work in the end, so it can't be that...
The second problem is a superficial one, sort of, but I can't figure out what's the cause. Despite my proper use of the firesteel (and I should know by now, right?) I seem to be creating small indentations in the rod. I can still create decent sparks with it, but why are they even there if the angle is correct? Might it have something to do with my mora spine? Apologies for the bad photo.
So, remembering there's no shame in using our old friends, the matches, I brought flame to cloth and the embers endured. Success. I then transferred said charcloth to the first tinder bundle and, after not too many attempts, it burst into flame. It was a lot easier than I thought. The problem with this first thinner bundle was that it didn't quite catch the kindling and just burnt to ash on the platform. Luckily, I'd prepared a second bundle. Blowing embers into flame isn't too hard it seems as I got the second bundle to light within at least two tries:
The third problem with this attempt was the fire management, but that's to be expected... I'm glad to report that this fire lasted a bit over an hour, however it took quite a bit of feeding it oxygen (read: blowing like a mad man), more than I thought necessary. The structure of the fire was a bit of a mess despite my gradual increasing of fuel sizes and cautious placing, but oh well... Fire was created this night, and with a new method, too.
The fire at its best.
So, why did the embers on the charcloth, using the firesteel, disappear after a second or two? What's the deal with the unwanted grooves in the firesteel if I'm angling my knife the right way? And any tips on fire building structure?
Thanks everyone. So, this was a good attempt. Not as painful as the birch bark try, that's for sure. I'm glad that I learnt a new method of firecraft tonight, but I think I might scale it down a little. So far I've lit relatively large fires for my skill level. I think what I want to do next is create a smaller, more utilitarian, fire. As of now all I've done is sit and stare at the flames. That's nice and all, but perhaps I should get more use out of my fires, hm? Maybe I'll suspend a pot over a smaller fire and cook up a bowl of soup?
Cheers.
The setup: two grass bundles, firesteel, mora knife, and charcloth.
Sorting the fuel.
There are three main problems that have become apparent in this latest attempt, but I think they can be solved quite easily. First is the curious problem with my charcloth's reaction to the sparks of my firesteel... I certainly got sparks on to the cloth, but the embers just didn't hold. For some strange reason the embers died out after a second. I would ask if the fault lies somewhere with the levels of carbonisation of the charcloth, but you'll see that the charcloth did in fact work in the end, so it can't be that...
The second problem is a superficial one, sort of, but I can't figure out what's the cause. Despite my proper use of the firesteel (and I should know by now, right?) I seem to be creating small indentations in the rod. I can still create decent sparks with it, but why are they even there if the angle is correct? Might it have something to do with my mora spine? Apologies for the bad photo.
So, remembering there's no shame in using our old friends, the matches, I brought flame to cloth and the embers endured. Success. I then transferred said charcloth to the first tinder bundle and, after not too many attempts, it burst into flame. It was a lot easier than I thought. The problem with this first thinner bundle was that it didn't quite catch the kindling and just burnt to ash on the platform. Luckily, I'd prepared a second bundle. Blowing embers into flame isn't too hard it seems as I got the second bundle to light within at least two tries:
The third problem with this attempt was the fire management, but that's to be expected... I'm glad to report that this fire lasted a bit over an hour, however it took quite a bit of feeding it oxygen (read: blowing like a mad man), more than I thought necessary. The structure of the fire was a bit of a mess despite my gradual increasing of fuel sizes and cautious placing, but oh well... Fire was created this night, and with a new method, too.
The fire at its best.
So, why did the embers on the charcloth, using the firesteel, disappear after a second or two? What's the deal with the unwanted grooves in the firesteel if I'm angling my knife the right way? And any tips on fire building structure?
Thanks everyone. So, this was a good attempt. Not as painful as the birch bark try, that's for sure. I'm glad that I learnt a new method of firecraft tonight, but I think I might scale it down a little. So far I've lit relatively large fires for my skill level. I think what I want to do next is create a smaller, more utilitarian, fire. As of now all I've done is sit and stare at the flames. That's nice and all, but perhaps I should get more use out of my fires, hm? Maybe I'll suspend a pot over a smaller fire and cook up a bowl of soup?
Cheers.
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you can overcook charcloth very easily especially if you are making small amounts. An easy way of making great char is to use cotton wool balls. I use a lyons syrup tin and stuff it with cotton balls and cook till no smoke is coming out then plug the hole and leave to cool fully. What you will find is the balls near the bottom will be overdone and hard. the midlle and top layers are perfect. Same principal applies. If your char is done well a fire steel lighting it will never fail and it will not go out till its fully consumed.
Yes, but why would a match flame be any different from sparks? The charcloth smoldered perfectly fine, so what's the difference between the sparks of a firesteel and when I brought a flame to the cloth to create an ember? And hey, no congratulations on the tinder bundle lighting? Heh.
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Where and when was the charcloth made? With the recent change in the weather, the cloth (which is ultra dry when freshly made) will be sucking moisture out of the air - so the longer it has been made, stored outside of a completely airtight container (that had dry air in to start with) and left out before your photos - all can contribute to damp charcloth. By using a flame, there is significantly more heat energy to dry the patch of cloth before it takes an ember which has to get big enough to become "self-sustaining".
If you have any charred and still dry logs left over from your fire, try striking a few sparks onto them and see if any embers catch - Used fire-dogs are one of the quickest ways of rekindling a previous fire.
The grooves in your firesteel are quite normal, part of the fire lighting process.
ATB
Ogri the trog
If you have any charred and still dry logs left over from your fire, try striking a few sparks onto them and see if any embers catch - Used fire-dogs are one of the quickest ways of rekindling a previous fire.
The grooves in your firesteel are quite normal, part of the fire lighting process.
ATB
Ogri the trog
A match is a sustained heat source whereas sparks though hot are very brief, things can take time to come up to combustion temperature.
Congratulations on lighting your first tinder bundle!
One thing I noticed is that your fire seemed to be built on concrete. Did you put a layer of wood down first to make the fire on? If not the cold, dense concrete will absorb quite a bit of heat from your fire when you're starting it. It's also possible to damage the concrete, sometimes it 'spalls' off and sends chips flying at high speed which can cause injury, especially to the eyes. It might be better to get yourself a big bit of thick, dry timber, plywood, or something similarly insulating to start your fires on. That will both help the fire starting and avoid the risks.
If I'm making a fire in the wilds I'll make a more or less flat surface to work on with a few bits of dry broken branches. The idea is that the damp ground underneath won't take away heat that's badly needed by a small fire at the beginning. I'll also take up any turf before making a fire, and replace it after the fire is extinguished, so that I leave no trace. My memory isn't what it used to be and I can't remember if this has been covered before in the thread, so please don't tease me if it has.
This is a very good explanation and logical explanation for the firesteel to charcloth problem.
The grooves are normal? I can imagine that, yes, but they're not just superficial grooves, they're fairly deep and actually hinder my striking. I'm sure the composition of the rod should just be entirely straight, though, right? I mean, I must be digging in to the rod to create such indentations, but I'm sure I'm not. Strange. But if you say it's normal...
Thanks, Ogri.
This makes sense along with Ogri's explanation.
Thanks, Ged.Congratulations on lighting your first tinder bundle!
One thing I noticed is that your fire seemed to be built on concrete. Did you put a layer of wood down first to make the fire on? If not the cold, dense concrete will absorb quite a bit of heat from your fire when you're starting it. It's also possible to damage the concrete, sometimes it 'spalls' off and sends chips flying at high speed which can cause injury, especially to the eyes. It might be better to get yourself a big bit of thick, dry timber, plywood, or something similarly insulating to start your fires on. That will both help the fire starting and avoid the risks.
If I'm making a fire in the wilds I'll make a more or less flat surface to work on with a few bits of dry broken branches. The idea is that the damp ground underneath won't take away heat that's badly needed by a small fire at the beginning. I'll also take up any turf before making a fire, and replace it after the fire is extinguished, so that I leave no trace. My memory isn't what it used to be and I can't remember if this has been covered before in the thread, so please don't tease me if it has.
Well yes, of course, I put a platform down. You'd think I'd at least know that by now, mate. See picture 2 of the report. Those logs at forefront of the photo were used as my platform. I understand that such logs are used to allow for insulation and to create a good heart of embers for the fire.
That's the first time I've ever used a match to light anything for Bushcraft, believe it or not. There's no shame in starting off a new method with a slightly easier tool to get the hang of it it first. If what Ogri says is true, I probably wouldn't have been able to light that charcloth last night anyway. I didn't want to waste time trying to get an ember to hold from the firesteel sparks. I tried that at least ten times before opting for matches. I'm just celebrating the fact that I made my own charcloth, blew embers in to flame twice with relatively ease and, in the end, had a fire that lasted for about an hour...No, not until you dont need the matches and are a fire god
Keep at it
There's no shame in starting a fire any way you can. I seldom use anything but a lighter these days. It was'nt criticism and my original post was supposed to be helpful.
Good work so far.
May I recommend you suspend a billy for a cup.of tea/coffee/hot chocolate/bovril/oxo etc as you are getting the fire going then once embers are established perhaps use them for bannock or similar.
Managing and maintaining a fire is ok and I'm as guilty as the next man for just gazing at the flames but its essential for food prep and sterilising water from nasties so being able to bring water to a rolling boil and utilising the embers for food prep is important to learn
May I recommend you suspend a billy for a cup.of tea/coffee/hot chocolate/bovril/oxo etc as you are getting the fire going then once embers are established perhaps use them for bannock or similar.
Managing and maintaining a fire is ok and I'm as guilty as the next man for just gazing at the flames but its essential for food prep and sterilising water from nasties so being able to bring water to a rolling boil and utilising the embers for food prep is important to learn
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