Bush Craft. Quiz. Hope you do better than I did

[Broch]

Its called the Meare Heath bow, and was made from Hickory. (in the UK anyway) The oldest bow EVER found was in Denmark and made from Elm. (circa 9000 years ago)

The Star Carr bow is considered older and made of willow - it was too light to hunt large game so may have been used for fish and/or wildfowl.

I thought the Somerset Meare Heath bow was Neolithic; relatively young!

Whatever the actual chronology, many woods were used long before yew

 

[Toddy]

The oldest bow in Scotland is the one from Rotten Bottom, up near the Grey Mare's Tail waterfall.
It's made of yew, and it dates to over 3, 600 bce.....so early Neolithic, and it's believed that the Yew wasn't local, but came from a bit further south, perhaps Cumbria, or even from Ireland.

5.3.2 Wood and other plant material | The Scottish Archaeological Research Framework

scarf.scot

I know the interpretation of the Star Carr willow bow is for 'fish', but honestly ? I wonder, in a site like that waterfowl abounded, and lightweight quick wee bows are ideal for those. The Amazonian and South Sea islanders show just such bows in use....as do the pygmies in African jungles.

Isn't archery a rabbit hole to get lost in ?

 

[Broch]

The oldest bow in Scotland is the one from Rotten Bottom, up near the Grey Mare's Tail waterfall.
It's made of yew, and it dates to over 3, 600 bce.....so early Neolithic, and it's believed that the Yew wasn't local, but came from a bit further south, perhaps Cumbria, or even from Ireland.

5.3.2 Wood and other plant material | The Scottish Archaeological Research Framework

scarf.scot

I know the interpretation of the Star Carr willow bow is for 'fish', but honestly ? I wonder, in a site like that waterfowl abounded, and lightweight quick wee bows are ideal for those. The Amazonian and South Sea islanders show just such bows in use....as do the pygmies in African jungles.

Isn't archery a rabbit hole to get lost in ?

I have now made Holmegaard bows from many woods and all of them would quite easily work for duck and goose, so I have no doubt light bows would have been of major value to the hunter-gatherer-fisher

As an archer, craftsman, wilderness skill practitioner, and an engineer, I find the study of the development of bows fascinating.

 

[demented dale]

Its called the Meare Heath bow, and was made from Hickory. (in the UK anyway) The oldest bow EVER found was in Denmark and made from Elm. (circa 9000 years ago)

thanks. I was just repeating what I thought ray mears said. the one he had was willow x

 

[HorseGuy]

50%

 

[reddave]

75%
As Joey Swole says..... 'You need to do better '

 

[TeeDee]

75%
As Joey Swole says..... 'You need to do better '

Glad you know your audience Dave.

 

[FerlasDave]

95% but only because it thinks Ray tells better stories!

 

[demented dale]

The Star Carr bow is considered older and made of willow - it was too light to hunt large game so may have been used for fish and/or wildfowl.

I thought the Somerset Meare Heath bow was Neolithic; relatively young!

Whatever the actual chronology, many woods were used long before yew

That was it. the star carr bow was the one ray mears had on his archery show. I think they made a copy of it and had a go, not 100% certain coz he was making and using all sorts. There was a 180 pound longbow found on the Mary rose. How could anyone shoot that? I cant steady a 50lb one. Ive got a 40lb recurve one last week and doing ok with that x

 

[Toddy]

100% certain coz he was making and using all sorts. There was a 180 pound longbow found on the Mary rose. How could anyone shoot that? I cant steady a 50lb one. Ive got a 40lb recurve one last week and doing ok with that x

I know one of the Archaeologists who worked on the Mary Rose excavations. I was told that they could tell the skeltons of the sailors apart from the archers by their development. Sailors were even, while the archers had a notable asymmetry.

Basically they had enlarged left (mostly, most folks are right handed) arms, with stronger attachment points on the shoulder bones. Sometimes bone growths on wrists and fingers too.

Different times, and there aren't many folks who's active daily 'job' is to be an ELB archer these days.

 

[demented dale]

I know one of the Archaeologists who worked on the Mary Rose excavations. I was told that they could tell the skeltons of the sailors apart from the archers by their development. Sailors were even, while the archers had a notable asymmetry.

Basically they had enlarged left (mostly, most folks are right handed) arms, with stronger attachment points on the shoulder bones. Sometimes bone growths on wrists and fingers too.

Different times, and there aren't many folks who's active daily 'job' is to be an ELB archer these days.

yes I saw something about the skeletons. I often wonder if you could tell from my skeleton. I shoot everyday for at least an hour. but theres no way I could draw that bow. in fact the bowyer on the ray mears prog who made a mary rose replica hung it in a tree and dangled off it to determine the poundage, . They were shooting them but they wernt that accurate I thought. DD xxx.

 

[bobnewboy]

Look up Simon Stanley et al. Shooting a heavy warbow is a very different proposition to a leisure bow. The process is called “shooting in the bow”, and the whole thing is quite different.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Look up Simon Stanley et al. Shooting a heavy warbow is a very different proposition to a leisure bow. The process is called “shooting in the bow”, and the whole thing is quite different.

It's that the bloke who is in Tod Cutler videos on YouTube?

 

[HillBill]

Ash was a relative latecomer, but, yes, before yew.

The question was traditional, not a one off sample. Given your experience, could you show me how many willow bows have been found, so they could be considered traditional? My understanding of the word traditional means 'used often, year after year' If you have one example, it cant be considered traditional (by default) Yew, again... Not traditional, given its heyday during the early middle ages.

Even Arthur Wellesley himself couldn't summon a longbow man in 1800. He asked Horse guards of course... but they said... 'Don't be an idiot. Takes 25 years per man, no ones gone to war with a Yew bow for 200 years'

 

[Broch]

We have slightly different interpretations of tradition then:

1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.
2. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.
3. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present.

The passing down of the skill of making bows is a tradition. There was no yew in Northern Europe for a long time after the ice age so 'traditionally' they were made of other woods.

But, that's just my interpretation

 

[bobnewboy]

It's that the bloke who is in Tod Cutler videos on YouTube?

I think that’s usually Joe Gibbs, but Simon is on other channels on YouTube.

 

[HillBill]

We have slightly different interpretations of tradition then:

1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.
2. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.
3. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present.

The passing down of the skill of making bows is a tradition. There was no yew in Northern Europe for a long time after the ice age so 'traditionally' they were made of other woods.

But, that's just my interpretation

Perhaps.

In response...
1, The very definition of a Myth or Legend (timescales may vary)
2, Agreed, but willow bows are not under this particular umbrella.
3,Partly agreed, until things move on. Marriage at 12 years old was normal along with the age of consent until 1875 for example, Not a great example admittedly, but the point stands in reference to your own.

So yeah, We have different ideas what traditional means.

Back to my original question. How many willow bows have been found, which defines willow as a traditional bow material? It is regarded as one of the worst woods to use for a bow. It doesn't have the qualities required.... And based on your definition of traditional... There must be thousands of them... yet...there aren't. And if it was a traditional material, it would be widely regarded as such...Yet, it isn't.

 

[Broch]

Very few have been found but that is not proof of not being used. Willow bows have been reproduced that are very capable of taking out wildfowl. Yes, it's a poor material but in the early Mesolithic will have been one of the only materials available.

But, you are picking up on just one material of my more generalist statement - there are many woods used for extensive periods before yew and even when yew was available woods like ash and elm were still used very frequently - there just wasn't enough good yew available especially at the time of the Mary Rose. I can't remember the ratio but was it 9 ash bows to 1 yew?

 

[Toddy]

It's astonishing that we even found one willow bow, tbh.
It's the kind of wood that rots, the bark doesn't, but the wood is eaten by everything out there.
Ideal conditions are the only way to find them preserved. Wet, cold, anaerobic.

On that note though, as kids we made bows, we made bows mostly from hazel and willow, because that's what was growing wild around us low enough that we could reach to pull or cut down....that and Hawthorn, and we soon learned.....

Anyway, the willow and hazel worked while it was fresh, but then, we were kids, just playing, not kids being part of the 'bringing home dinner' lifestyle.

 

[MrEd]

I got
5, 9 +18 wrong