Tetra Pak uses Polyethylene.
Waxed paper - the wax is a petroleum distillate. Burns beautifully.
Waxed paper - the wax is a petroleum distillate. Burns beautifully.
Bury or burn?
- Thread starter Wayland
- Start date
New research into biodegradable and compostable plastic shopping bags showed that neither completely broke down as claimed. 6 months in the sea and biodegradable bags still held shopping. Compostable was better as it could not hold anything. But still existed and on pieces with potential to cause harm.
Why not use paper bags like in America? My supermarket when I was a kid used brown paper. It just composted down nicely. No issues at all. Also used as fire lighting material.
Why not use paper bags like in America? My supermarket when I was a kid used brown paper. It just composted down nicely. No issues at all. Also used as fire lighting material.
I remember waxed paper as a kid (a thin, translucent paper soaked in was and a slightly heavier wax coating on one side) I still use it occasionally. Presumably the original was an edible wax such as beeswax. That said, some time around the early 20th century most “waxes” began being petroleum based and they may have switched (remember, health concerns were a bit different then) Other grease proof paper included what we call “butchers wrap” which I suspect is what y’all are talking about. It came into use only slightly later than waxed paper and is heavierr and only coated on one side. No idea what the actual coating is but it has a similar waxy feel.
It varies a bit from state to state but most states both are used. Here in Florida when I check out if I don’t bring my reusable bags the bagger will ask, “Paper or plastic?” I usually choose paper but it’s not a cre all. It’s a choice of “choke a fish or kill a tree.”
Not an excuse. The same ads can be printed on paper bags just as easily. Even better, when I first got to Florida (before everybody had smart phones with weather apps) the pape shopping bags had hurricane tracking maps printed on them.
Edited to correct auto-corrupt.
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Returning to Wayland's opening topic …..
My understanding is that the decision in the UK is based on the fact the incinerators are not efficient enough and too much pollutant is being put into the air. Therefore, I doubt our camp fires are good enough either. Also, a great deal of the plastic we think we are recycling still goes to landfill because it is not recyclable (economically presumably).
To clarify my opening post, I take all my waste home or put it in suitable rubbish bins en-route so that it ends up being buried in landfill, I do not bury it in the wilderness.
My understanding is that the decision in the UK is based on the fact the incinerators are not efficient enough and too much pollutant is being put into the air. Therefore, I doubt our camp fires are good enough either. Also, a great deal of the plastic we think we are recycling still goes to landfill because it is not recyclable (economically presumably).
To clarify my opening post, I take all my waste home or put it in suitable rubbish bins en-route so that it ends up being buried in landfill, I do not bury it in the wilderness.
I am certainly not advocating the burying of rubbish in the wild. My concern is that anything that I do pack out with me and put into the public waste system is ultimately buried in landfills or shipped abroad somewhere. We have a woefully bad record on recycling in this country.
Given that I have smelted iron and cast bronze with the resources I have available, ie. charcoal, fire and air, I do believe I can be reasonably sure of the complete combustion of small amounts of plastic waste.
Given that I have smelted iron and cast bronze with the resources I have available, ie. charcoal, fire and air, I do believe I can be reasonably sure of the complete combustion of small amounts of plastic waste.
I do have some solutions to the problem of carting plastic wrapping around.
. Straws, I went to a kitchen shop and bought a pack of stainless steel Straws with a soft silicone tip to sip from.
.cups. reusable bamboo coffee cup always in my bag along with the straw and an old teaspoon.
Plastic wrap or wax paper substitute. I've cut some pretty cotton into squares or oblong and shaved up some pure wax impregnated the cloth with wax by heating gently in oven for a few minutes to melt the wax into the cloth. Known as wax wraps expensive to buy and cheap to make. Plenty of you tube videos show how to make and use. Also washable and reusable.
Plastic sandwich box for meat etc as posted before.
Where there is a will there is a way... if one can be bothered.
It's just a case of taking responsibility for your actions and being realy aware and educating oneself.
I can't understand the paper straw thing. I was brought up on then. You just learned not to chew and slobber on the end ! Worked fine for me!
. Straws, I went to a kitchen shop and bought a pack of stainless steel Straws with a soft silicone tip to sip from.
.cups. reusable bamboo coffee cup always in my bag along with the straw and an old teaspoon.
Plastic wrap or wax paper substitute. I've cut some pretty cotton into squares or oblong and shaved up some pure wax impregnated the cloth with wax by heating gently in oven for a few minutes to melt the wax into the cloth. Known as wax wraps expensive to buy and cheap to make. Plenty of you tube videos show how to make and use. Also washable and reusable.
Plastic sandwich box for meat etc as posted before.
Where there is a will there is a way... if one can be bothered.
It's just a case of taking responsibility for your actions and being realy aware and educating oneself.
I can't understand the paper straw thing. I was brought up on then. You just learned not to chew and slobber on the end ! Worked fine for me!
I cant understand why people can't drink without straws at all?
Not easy to drink an 'iced' drink. It is basically made with finely crushed ice. You can not sip it like your room temperature beer.....
Landfills is a horrible solution, no better from when I put my rubbish in a hole in the ground.
Most civilized countries are digging up landfills and recycling the stuff.
I am surprised that UK is still where it was when we left 13 years ago.
Lot of useful resources in a landfill. Aluminium, glass.
BTW, I stopped my 'personal landfills' in the very early 1980's.
Landfills is a horrible solution, no better from when I put my rubbish in a hole in the ground.
Most civilized countries are digging up landfills and recycling the stuff.
I am surprised that UK is still where it was when we left 13 years ago.
Lot of useful resources in a landfill. Aluminium, glass.
BTW, I stopped my 'personal landfills' in the very early 1980's.
I understand what you are saying Wayland but the efficiency of getting rid of many pollutants in incinerators lies in in secondary burning of the gases; on an open fire, even one that's very hot, I don't think we can be sure of burning off those gases and particles. If industrial scale furnaces designed for maximum incineration can't do it I would be sceptical about even forge like conditions managing.
It's basically all the same as every other biodegradable plastic. They take a source of starch and process it to form the plastic. Eating it? Well even if the source came from cassava I certainly wouldn't eat it or advise others to try.
However great this cassava sourced biodegradable plastic is, the technology behind its production is the same as all the others. As a result it is unlikely to degrade quickly enough to prevent harm to animals in the same way as non-biodegradable plastic bags do. If even 6 months (or was it a year I can't recall) of exposure to seawater doesn't stop it having enough integrity and strength to be filled and to hold shopping then I suppose it's not really a good solution.
BTW I'm no expert but I've done a lot of reading up on biodegradable plastics of various types for work. The advantages of them are how they can take pretty much any cheap, local source of starch to make the plastic. So in SE Asia you'll use cassava, but in Europe you'll use something else, perhaps corn starch? I can't remember what is used in Europe.
The plastic itself is not really the problem, its what happens after its use and how the waste is managed, there must be a multitude of things that can be done with non-biodegradable plastic, once tightly baled waste plastic has some strength could houses be built from it, bailey type bridges,home insulation, farm buildings etc, I had a real stupid idea for waste plastic, if you built two brick walls 40ft high 40 foot apart then filled the void in the wall with waste plastic, and sited the wall along the border of the US and Mexico, how much waste plastic would you need? and if this was viable, could sea defences, flood barriers be built with the waste, there must be a good idea waiting out there.
Actually much plastic recycling does need involve shredding it and combining with a resin to make structural items or furniture. Patio decking made from recycled plastic is fairly common here.
You can and I do; except when driving and I need a spill proof lid. As somebody said though, it’s just such a foreign idea to this generation.
Been drinking Coke, iced tea, ice water, kool-aid, cold milk, etc all my life. Never needed a straw apart from what I mentioned to Wayland above. Also I’ve never drank room temperature beer in my life. Even when I was stationed in England it was slightly chilled (albeit not as ice cold as here)
