burning wood

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robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
There is often discusion here about what wood is best to burn, I just posted this on a forum about burning wood in stoves but it applies equally well to burning firewood in the woods. I have heated with wood for 20 years, if I was asked advice from someone new to woodburning I would say this.

1 The biggest single factor in how well wood burns is not species but moisture content. Ash has a very low moisture content of 47% when green compared to birch 76% and beech 88%, chestnut sweet 124%, elm 144%, but wych elm 75%, oak 89%, poplar 150%, sycamore is good at 69%, willow 90-100%. All winter felled, 150% means 150 parts by weight of water to 100 parts by weight of wood.

So you see that elm can still have more water in it after a year of seasoning than green ash.

2 Generally no one sells dry wood, those logs advertised as "seasoned hardwood" are not. A small scale firewood merchant selling a few hundred tons a year would need several dutch barns stacked with drying wood to be able to supply seasoned wood. What most do is split, leave it lying in a pile for a few weeks so the surface moisture is gone then deliver.

3 If you put a part seasoned log on the fire it will spend the first 50% of its energy evaporating the water before it can burn the rest. That means you are using twice as much wood to get the same temperature out of your stove.

4 we have forgotten how to burn wood in the UK remember holidays in France, Sweden or Switzerland seeing the lovely big neat piles of wood outside the houses with a roof over and the air getting round to take the moisture away? To properly heat a small home with wood your pile needs to be a years supply something like the size of a double garage.

5 last thing is the one most folks worry about first, species. Ash is great and particularly if I was buying wood from a merchant and burning it without seasoning a year I would pay a hefty premium for it. A glance through the moisture contents above will show other good woods. Sycamore birch and beach would be my next 3 faves. Obviously there are differences in the calorific value of thoroughly dry wood, generally light woods like willow and alder will have a lower calorific value than heavy dense woods but give me bone dry willow over green ash any day.
 

Barney

Settler
Aug 15, 2008
947
0
Lancashire
An interesting thread.

where did you come by the water content figures for the various types of wood Robin?

I would be very interested to know the water content of the various pines since it seemed particularly difficult to burn last week on a small open camp fire. For me at any rate!
 

addo

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 8, 2006
2,485
9
Derbyshire
Ive been burning sycamore every day since Sept.
It was felled 12 months ago and cut split and stacked. I was worried that in Sept it would still be a bit green only having been felled 9 month previous, but its been a winner and has only got easyer to burn since.
Running low now so ive heared of an Ash thats been recently felled so I'll be after that next week, and a very large sycamore that sould be next years supply sorted.
I love the burner but powering the whole house has proved to be a lot of hard work and involved more wood than I thought.
Still, ive saved myself £400 this year in bills or fuel if I had to buy it, plus I m doing my bit for the old environment.
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
LOL I need to build a bigger log store enough to take at least 3 cords which is what we use a year. I tried the german holzhausen stacking method, the wood in the centre is fantastic very dry and clean, no mould. But the outer skin is a bit slimy and damp. I want to put a recycled poly carbonate sheet roof on the new store to get more of the sun in there
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
LOL I need to build a bigger log store enough to take at least 3 cords which is what we use a year. I tried the german holzhausen stacking method, the wood in the centre is fantastic very dry and clean, no mould. But the outer skin is a bit slimy and damp. I want to put a recycled poly carbonate sheet roof on the new store to get more of the sun in there

Tis the wind that dries it more than the sun. What you need is one of these.

IMG_1267.jpg


IMG_1266.jpg


http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35092&highlight=robins+shed



An interesting thread.

where did you come by the water content figures for the various types of wood Robin?

I would be very interested to know the water content of the various pines since it seemed particularly difficult to burn last week on a small open camp fire. For me at any rate!

Figures come from "a handbook of home-grown timbers HMSO 1939 from the days when we used to pay for proper research into such things, also includes strengths destruction tested under tension, sheer, compression etc.. 9 softwoods listed varying from larch at 49, douglas fir at 61 and sitka at 69, most are around 70-80 but you don't want corsican150 and sitka at 69.
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
Tis the wind that dries it more than the sun.

Really? I never knew that :lmao: I figured the presence of sunlight would perhaps make things work even faster. Plus I acquired some big poly carbonoate sheet's off an old conservatoroy and thought why not use them instead of buy more stuff in. Actually I do have a shed very similar to yours only it has joists and a slat floor, and is no where near as big as yours, it only holds 1 cord. Thats why last year I was messing about with drystone wall type stacks and the german holzhausen (which I posted I think??) to cope with the amount I cut and split:D
On yours, I would of put old pallets down first to get a layer of air under the whole thing, even if it is a concrete floor, it exposes even more of the wood's surface area to the air. I am sure that if the pile isnt in contact with the ground it makes a huge difference. I love the way you made the roof bendy, its the same sort of shapes as the brace's. What axe are you using to split with?
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
Can I be really thick here?

Just what is a cord, I know its a quantity of wood, but how much?

LOL if you want to confuse a firewood dealer, dont show him 3 shovels and ask him to take his pick, simply ask them how much they charge for a cord of firewood :) "Ooh sorry mate not sure about that, I just do my nissan full for £50, or I do a JCB bucketful for a straight tenner, £1 for a tesco carrier full".......:rolleyes: And then you get the wide boys who reckon you can get a cubic meter of firewood into a normal sized builders bag.......:rolleyes: I said it before and say it again firewood should be sold by standard recognised volume (such as the traditional and time honoured cord, not by weight as almost everyone seems to now. A ton of fresh wet beech will come down to less than half a ton when it begins to dry out. Its a con. Nigh on impossible to compare prices, and 90% of what they sell is crap any way:lmao:
 

mayfly

Life Member
May 25, 2005
690
1
Switzerland
Interesting thread! Here is a reasonable explanation on wood volumes. I have just started heating a house in France with a wood fired central heating system and so I've become obsessed about quality firewood! If I was there all the time, I think I would need something like 3 cords each winter, which is a lot. Happily, the French seem to be pretty precise about wood volumes and prices. I get charged by the stere, or one cubic metre of wood, cut in lengths pretty accurately to fit the furnace at no extra charge. The price is dependent on the quality of the wood and consistent across numerous local sources. I really appreciate this attention to detail.

I like your wood shed Robin, it looks superb.

Chris
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
Yes I found the same when I owned property there, its not easy to be a dodgy firewood seller in France (not that I attempted to sell wood there :lmao: ) But the customers are far more knowledgable and choosy so the dealers must have a quality product to sell. Its not uncommon for split oak to be stacked and air dried for up to 4 years. Naturally it makes a superb fuel, which is hot and lasts well.
 

Bardster

Native
Apr 28, 2005
1,118
12
54
Staplehurst, Kent
we have a firewood dealer near us (3 miles) that kiln dries all his wood before sale. makes it a bit more expensive - £65 a ton. but you know the moisture content is guarenteed. its also about 80% oak in the last batch we had.
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,412
2,432
Bedfordshire
I wonder how the energy accounting works on that? Save bill on home gas by burning wood that was dried by burning gas. I am sure it will still be better, but the kiln drying must eat into the benefit margin.
 

mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
Thats what I thought-wether its gas powered electric the price and extra energy to do that makes it seem daft, unless he is using a solar kiln of course? Unfortunately it takes time to brew decent firewood
 

Bardster

Native
Apr 28, 2005
1,118
12
54
Staplehurst, Kent
Thats what I thought-wether its gas powered electric the price and extra energy to do that makes it seem daft, unless he is using a solar kiln of course? Unfortunately it takes time to brew decent firewood


his kilns are gas powered - and the prices went up a lot this year. I guess it means he can dry wood in six weeks rather than two years. means he has to keep a lot less storage and
can sell this years felling.
I bought a tonne of wood earlier this year - cost me £35 but its unburnable till next year as its too wet. so a tonne this year will end up as maybe half next year. whereas if i had paid twice the price i would have had burnable wood this year and a full ton at that. it seems to work out about the same from the buyers perspective.
 

Mooseman1

Forager
Dec 22, 2008
115
0
49
London UK
Tis the wind that dries it more than the sun. What you need is one of these.

IMG_1267.jpg


IMG_1266.jpg


http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35092&highlight=robins+shed





Figures come from "a handbook of home-grown timbers HMSO 1939 from the days when we used to pay for proper research into such things, also includes strengths destruction tested under tension, sheer, compression etc.. 9 softwoods listed varying from larch at 49, douglas fir at 61 and sitka at 69, most are around 70-80 but you don't want corsican150 and sitka at 69.

Thats a real nice setup, i have the same at home, well its shared at the family cabin but i spend most of my time up there so tack ownership. :D
 

Chinkapin

Settler
Jan 5, 2009
746
1
83
Kansas USA
I agree with Mr. Dazzler, regarding a standard size for wood. I can't speak for what has happened in Britain but here in the U.S. a cord of wood was 4ft X 4ft X 8ft one-half of that was the rick which was 4ft X 4ft X 4ft. My personal experience has been that in the north where it was colder and more wood was consumed it was generally bought by the cord whereas in the south by the rick. Over the years as fewer and fewer people cut and sold wood and there were fewer and fewer buyers except for a few urbanites who wanted a small occasional fire in their fireplace. The end result has been that the standards have eroded. I have noticed several times in the past few years a "cord" of wood being advertised that was actually only a half cord. I don't think this was larceny, just that the seller was as ignorant as the buyer. More commonly is the so-called "face cord" which is 4ft. high X 8ft long X 16 inches (or some other common stove wood length). This would be only 1/3 of a true cord if my math is correct. Naturally the "face cord" is seldom advertised as that but simply as a "cord."
 

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