British Gear .....Chinese Made?

[Monk]

I read in the papers where the UK MoD is making uniform contracts in China. Is this true and can anyone here tell us how is the quality of such gear?

I have seen on this site where folks say even SASS is having a hard time sourcing zips/material etc. so eventually does this affect the civilian market by drying up the source of quality bushcraft surplus items?

Yes.. I have tried stuff made in the Far East...usually falls apart, doesn't fit right and does not do as advertised.
Monk

 

[Spacemonkey]

...yet it is considerably cheaper. You pay your money and gets what you pay for. However, considering that practically everything nowadays comes from the far east, it's hard to avoid it. Those nice designer label mega bucks trainers you buy in the high street? Same factory output of the cheapies they sell at the market. According to the BBC most of the world's socks come from the same village in China, even the high quality ones. I've bought British made products before that have fallen apart in minutes, yet have Chinese stuff that refuses to die (girlfriend included!! ). China is at the same stage that Japan was in the 60's/70's, and people laughed at them then. Made in Japan meant rubbish stuff that fell apart. Now, even Japanese quality kit is made in China...

Oh, and the current/previous supplier of MOD kit was in eastern Europe which is not reputed as the bastion of quality manufacturing last I heard. I tihkn you are right about cheap stuff made in the Far East, but they can knock out quality kit too. I suppose eventually that the people like SASS will source their materials from China in the end if they can't get them from Euro sweat shops instead.

 

[arctic hobo]

It may well be linked to the new EU member states - countries that now will be upping their economies and working conditions, and will thus be more expensive.

 

[Roving Rich]

Yup fraid so, most kit is made in China nowadays, has been for a little while now. The manufacturing quality is far better than it ever used to be, so even the quality items are made there nowadays. Manufacturing has moved from Japan, to Korea to Vietnam and now to China with the largest labour force in the world. Unfortunately its uneconomical to manufacture elsewhere.

Rich

 

[philaw]

When people say 'developing country', they normally just mean poor, but China really is developing, and faster than perhaps anywhere else at any time in history. There are people here that use open latrines, but have DVD players, and if you go away from where you live for a month a shop will have closed, a new restaurant will have opened and there'll be some new building under construction.

Not long ago everything that was made here was cheap crap, but Chinese businessmen understand that the margins are better if you sell pricy stuff to rich people, and they want in. The clothes that are available here are now as good or better than the ones in britain, the copied cds are identical to the originals. Chinese electronics are getting better all the time, and you can see with 'Lenovo' buying IBM's laptop division and a chinese state oil company trying to buy.. ..that american oil company, that things are only heading in one direction. That said, oversight and accountability here are a joke, so the people often give in to the temptation to cut corners and fill their pockets. (You woulden't believe how common it is). You've also got to remember that any company buying gear from china to sell in britain knows this too, and will keep an eye on them for their own sake.

Just check the gear out and trust your own eyes.

 

[leon-1]

One of the reasons that I have been laid off is because my old company have opened a plant in China, we were training the people from the Chinese plant before they started laying of people in England.

When I left a mate of mine who has also been told that he is gone in a few weeks now was in China, they had more than a weeks worth of output in rework at any one time and not the skill to fix the product. When you look at each device made costing £10,000 (minimum) and having a weekly output of in excess of 120 devices that is not good news.

The chief engineer for that specific role has sinced left and being on good terms with her she told me that they needed at least 2 years to train people to do what we were doing, they got 6 weeks .

The company moved out there because it was cheap labour, they are now reaping the benefits of possibly going under in the next six to 10 months and at the same time it cost 6,500 people in the UK thier jobs and all this came down to in the end was greed

Sorry for the rant

I used the soldier 95 kit before I left the army that was made in China and didn't have a high opinion of it then, strangely enough I have been told that the American uniforms are made in the UK because it doesn't fall apart.

 

[Stuart]

the quality of stuff produced in china is no where near as bad as it used to and its getting better and better on an almost monthly basis, provided you have good quality control at this end there will be no problems, which is exaclty what the big designer clothing companys do.

most of the consumables you have in your house were made in china and you probably didnt even know it, even when it says 'made in germany' on the box most of whats inside probably originated in china, the manufacturers get higher profits and the cost to quality ratio is much better, it makes good business sense

 

[Moonraker]

I think we, as consumers, always have the choice.

If you feel strongly about it then make the effort to buy locally. Otherwise we still have to 'pay' the 'true' cost for cheap imports (inhumane working conditions, low wages, pollution from shipping across the world etc).

Personally I always check where products are made and make every effort to buy local produce or if not available, from European sources. It is not always possible but I feel that in a small way one can make a difference.

The net result otherwise will be that developing countries such as India and China will end up having a virtual monopoly over manufactured products and that will inevitably lead to limited choice and higher prices.

People talk about supermarkets in the same way and that is borne out by the fact that every £1 in £8 spent in the UK goes to Tesco. The we complain when all the local shops and businesses go under Yet there are alternatives, often better value and better quality locally.

Perhaps it would be a useful exercise to start another thread with British & European manufactured kit?

 

[Jamie]

I used the soldier 95 kit before I left the army that was made in China and didn't have a high opinion of it then, strangely enough I have been told that the American uniforms are made in the UK because it doesn't fall apart.

I heard that some of the French military kit is manufactured here in the UK as well (so am sure others buy from here as well) although it is a dying market due to all of the reasons above.

 

[leon-1]

the quality of stuff produced in china is no where near as bad as it used to and its getting better and better on an almost monthly basis, provided you have good quality control at this end there will be no problems, which is exaclty what the big designer clothing companys do.

I don't want to buy something that is not top quality now, it is of little concern to a consumer that in 2 or 3 months time they will have sorted out the problems with a specific product.

Having served in the forces and having been issued with rubbish kit for a fair few years I am also not convinced that the QC is there. Knowing that the general way of dealing with a fault is just to build more and hope that they are OK does not instill me with confidence either.

The only reasons that they can produce things in such large numbers is the size of the workforce and the basic slave labour that they inflict on thier own people. Why would people have pride in what they do if they are being paid very little.

There is a saying in Industry, "If you want monkeys Pay peanuts".

 

[leon-1]

I heard that some of the French military kit is manufactured here in the UK as well (so am sure others buy from here as well) although it is a dying market due to all of the reasons above.

Jamie that is correct, I worked with the guy that set up thier school of marksmanship and sniping and he showed us the labels that said made in the UK.

Sad when you think that there are a number of countries around the world that use equipment manufactured in the UK for thier armed forces and yet our own forces get kit made by the lowest bidder.

 

[arctic hobo]

I think we, as consumers, always have the choice.

If you feel strongly about it then make the effort to buy locally. Otherwise we still have to 'pay' the 'true' cost for cheap imports (inhumane working conditions, low wages, pollution from shipping across the world etc).

Personally I always check where products are made and make every effort to buy local produce or if not available, from European sources. It is not always possible but I feel that in a small way one can make a difference.

Absolutely Simon. I also make the effort - the only big thing I buy from outside Europe is Nanok kit and army surplus (which I hope to replace as I go on). I have an expensive but I hope worthwhile belief in buying very well made stuff that will last me all my life - and partly by design, partly by coincidence, it is all from Europe (oh and my new Swanni is New Zealand ). The choice of where to buy is an important one (in much the same way I'd avoid buying fruit from Israel in the supermarket), and that's why companies are bound to display the country

 

[Monk]

Great insights everyone! My uncle used to make cars at Vauxhall (British cars) now long since disappeared and I just think its sad...the UK not only loses the job-but you also lose that knowledge base and the skills whether its making good quality clothes or items.

As pointed out, when these cheaper countries have a monopoly-items might not be so cheap anymore!

What I have done is this: if you have a favorite pair of boots or gear that you use for bushcrafting-try and get a second pair to lay aside for the future. It's there when you want it and you can enjoy it.

 

[spamel]

I was told a while back in the QM's Department that lightweights and barracks dress is coming back, lightweights for toms on the ground and barracks for people working in an office enviornment, and that 95 will be worn on exercise and operational tours. Bring it on I say, I liked lightweights, but can they please put the map pockets back on please?

 

[Goose]

They removed the map pocket?!!?
Must be lots of lost berets around the mess then!