Smock questions for fellow users

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Malta Convoy

Member
Nov 6, 2022
22
8
82
USA/South Korea
Hello to all, old reader-turned-new member. I have some questions about smocks when you might have some free time, and I know of nowhere else to get solid feedback but on this website. I am relatively new to smocks, having been introduced to them by another US veteran, but I am a huge fan and now own multiple copies, of which I make regular and hard use in my area. So far, everything from Arktis: everything is holding up well in rain, wind, cold, and in mountain hiking use. Zero complaints and I am happy.

One thing I would like to know, is, why does their material vary? For instance, the Core products seem thicker and heavier than the rest. French CE, Olive Green, Irish DPM are all equally robust; M90K and PenCott GreenZone are thinner, and Flecktarn is thinner still, even though they were manufactured in the same year. Does anyone here know why this is?

Another question I have, is, are all smocks Made in UK, or some elsewhere? The tag says so, but Lara Tactical (France) did a tour of the UK facility and was told design is what Exeter does, and that many products are "made in the EU." Program can be found here:

I am wondering if factory location might account for differing quality.

Last question is: is SASS still in the smock business and if not, are there any other smock manufacturers equal to or better than Arktis? Heretofore I have been "brand loyal" and Arktis has products I would additionally like to buy and add to my collection (B220, B211), but they don't respond to e-mails with questions much (if at all), so I am guessing government contracts are the priority and retail customers, not so much. SASS is highly spoken of by British military veterans but they don't seem to be around, anymore. Are there other solid options?

Sorry for the longwinded post, but there's no one and nowhere else I can turn for answers, but here.

Cheers, everyone!
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,715
1,961
Mercia
Materials do vary. As an example SASS did an incredibly limited run of their smocks in Ventile back in 2008, tailor made for the users. There were I believe only ever 3 in the initial run. Space Monkey had one, I had (and still have) another. They did do another run of some in a "Ventile like material" a little later. I believe they don't tailor smocks now, but just work on uniforms.
 
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Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,428
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Knowhere
Well I like the Keela Smock that was reviewed a while back, it has stood up to some heavy rain recently, what is good about it is the lining, best of both worlds.
 
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Malta Convoy

Member
Nov 6, 2022
22
8
82
USA/South Korea
Well I like the Keela Smock that was reviewed a while back, it has stood up to some heavy rain recently, what is good about it is the lining, best of both worlds.
I'd never heard of the Keela smock until I read your post - it looks mighty sharp! Is the lining to waterproof it (i.e., a dropliner) or for warmth? What are the materials the smock itself is made from? Thanks in advance for any extra info!
 

Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
4,079
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Berlin
I think they simply use the fabrics that are already made for the armies.

The Germans for example never liked the old thick olive uniforms and heavy cotton equipment and when they changed to Flecktarn everything new became as light as possible. The classical mountain troop rucksack in Cordura is surely the lightest Rucksack that was issued in a Nato army. They currently use the Berghaus Atlas 4 which is the lightest military rucksack in the 110 litres class. And the field uniforms are also very light and fast drying on top. I can't tell you if the stuff really has a lower quality than the other. Regarding personal equipment money doesn't matter here so much. German soldiers often get far more expensive equipment than the neighbours. 500 € bivvy bag and now a 600 € Snigel Rucksack for everybody for example, 200 € compass, whatever. They buy from the lowest bidder who is able to deliver the best item. They get the expensive Carinthia sleeping bags, most neighbours the cheap Fecsa copies instead and so on.

Leo Köhler offers Smoks also to civilians. I don't know if they currently have contracts with the Bundeswehr though. But I think the stuff is made to original specifications if it looks like that.
They sell via usual German milsurp shops. ASMC runs a English website for example.


 
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Malta Convoy

Member
Nov 6, 2022
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82
USA/South Korea
I think they simply use the fabrics that are already made for the armies.

The Germans for example never liked the old thick olive uniforms and heavy cotton equipment and when they changed to Flecktarn everything new became as light as possible. The classical mountain troop rucksack in Cordura is surely the lightest Rucksack that was issued in a Nato army. They currently use the Berghaus Atlas 4 which is the lightest military rucksack in the 110 litres class. And the field uniforms are also very light and fast drying on top. I can't tell you if the stuff really has a lower quality than the other. Regarding personal equipment money doesn't matter here so much. German soldiers often get far more expensive equipment than the neighbours. 500 € bivvy bag and now a 600 € Snigel Rucksack for everybody for example, 200 € compass, whatever. They buy from the lowest bidder who is able to deliver the best item. They get the expensive Carinthia sleeping bags, most neighbours the cheap Fecsa copies instead and so on.

Leo Köhler offers Smoks also to civilians. I don't know if they currently have contracts with the Bundeswehr though. But I think the stuff is made to original specifications if it looks like that.
They sell via usual German milsurp shops. ASMC runs a English website for example.


Thanks very much for the very detailed and informative reply, I'm quite grateful to get the German perspective. The information you provided is very, very helpful!
 
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Tiley

Life Member
Oct 19, 2006
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I'd never heard of the Keela smock until I read your post - it looks mighty sharp! Is the lining to waterproof it (i.e., a dropliner) or for warmth? What are the materials the smock itself is made from? Thanks in advance for any extra info!
The drop liner makes the garment waterproof. It's a good top: beautifully made, clever use of Ventile, well-cut and eminetly practical - and I don't particularly like smocks! I've had mine for about a year and somehow it has become my 'go-to' garment for pretty much everything.
 
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Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
4,079
1,767
Berlin
If you plan to get a Leo Köhler Smok, have also a look at the CONCAMO Version!

I don't own a single item in concamo pattern as I usually buy either plain green equipment new or used milsurp. But so far I have seen the descriptions and videos it might be the currently most effective camouflage pattern family.

I see more and more of the stuff offered by serious German army equipment makers and I guess that our special forces are currently field testing it. It's probably a real case of "next generation", although I doubt that they will change the whole army to that pattern as Flecktarn hides us good enough here in German, woods.


 

TLM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 16, 2019
3,128
1,649
Vantaa, Finland
The rocky version is quite impressive as camo though I am not so certain about it's practicality as military field uniform.

Once the idea of bright red coat is rejected it is not too difficult to tailor camo to a limited environment. The problem is to have it reasonably fit multiple backgrounds.

The last two versions of the British uniforms are quite comfortable.

That is not to say that there might be better alternatives for trekking.
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
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Knowhere
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Malta Convoy

Member
Nov 6, 2022
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82
USA/South Korea
The rocky version is quite impressive as camo though I am not so certain about it's practicality as military field uniform.

Once the idea of bright red coat is rejected it is not too difficult to tailor camo to a limited environment. The problem is to have it reasonably fit multiple backgrounds.

The last two versions of the British uniforms are quite comfortable.

That is not to say that there might be better alternatives for trekking.
Do you think the surplus British military-issue DPM smock is as useful today as the newer, non-government contract/private retail manufacturer versions? Or has the Old School British DPM smock become obsolete?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this subject ...
 

TLM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 16, 2019
3,128
1,649
Vantaa, Finland
I have both the older DPM and new MTP wind proof smocks and find both quite suitable for Finnish climate material wise. The cut fits me well and there are enough pockets, so why not.

The issue of military look does not really bother all that much here, at least when outside the city center. I guess conscript military service might make a difference.

As I see it the basic requirements for military field clothing and civilian outdoor clothing are really not that different. On the civilian side there are a lot more shades though ...
 
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Malta Convoy

Member
Nov 6, 2022
22
8
82
USA/South Korea
I have both the older DPM and new MTP wind proof smocks and find both quite suitable for Finnish climate material wise. The cut fits me well and there are enough pockets, so why not.

The issue of military look does not really bother all that much here, at least when outside the city center. I guess conscript military service might make a difference.

As I see it the basic requirements for military field clothing and civilian outdoor clothing are really not that different. On the civilian side there are a lot more shades though ...
I just picked up a DPM 1990 Pattern smock from a vendor in Europe. No hood and best of all, no velcro! It is soft and comfortable but smells like mildew. Oh well, nothing a lot of sunshine and fresh air can't fix (I hope)...
 

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