British bushcraft - a dying art?

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And Toddy, I agree - politics wasn't what the thread, or my answer, was about - you are the person who brought it to that with your "opinion" - so don't make me out to be the bad guy here - you started knocking other peoples posts, not the other way around - so I tell you what - you drop it, and so will I.

Red

tbh, wolfies original thread asked about 'traditional bushcraft skills, tools recipes, clothing, folklore, festivals etc. that could be regarded as particularly British ?' - your reply Red, was mainly a charged and weighted list of things we can't do with guns anymore, a reply which certainly dips its toes in the pool of politics.
your replies to Toddy seem to dip in the pool of overly forceful argument a bit, and from what i have heard and read on here in the last 12 months, that is out of character for you
i can see your passion for the subject you raised, but time and a place eh?
 
Red - I agree that we have to protect our rights and privilidges!
Keep alert to more erosion of our Heritage by the PC mob and their friends!
We have little enough freedom left - the rights of a Free Briton seem forgotton now!
This is not meant as a Political Rant just an observation....

I think you may have misread the tone of Toddys posts though:D .......
 
No - I don't like to be told I am "like an advert for the NRA" Wayland - particularly with an eyes raised emoticon. To me the pursuit of country sports is key to our cultural heritage and British Bushcraft skills. I have learned a huge amount about wildlife from those who shoot, gamekeep and fly raptors to hunt. I'm fine with those who don't agree but don't appreciate silly comments. If others have their opinions on the subject - why not simply express them rather than make derisive comments?

I didn't start a ruck here and I'm happy to let it drop - but I do not need someone to make clever remarks unchallenged. I agree, Toddy is one of the good ones - I rather hoped I had made a contribution or two as well. However if anyone is pursuing a political agenda here, its not me. Toddy has aired her opinion on hunting and gun ownership in the past (many times), however the taking of game is an integral part of Bushcraft and is legal still. It features in Ray Mears programmes, Mors' books, Lofty's books etc. I do not believe, and will not be told that there is something wrong with it, Its as much a part of Bushcraft as cordage, knifework or plant identification.

I'm happy to duscuss the point rationally but I do not appreciate silly comments and then be told off for replying to someone who started the argument - good "guy" or otherwise. To me, taking animals to eat is probably the last skill still practiced for real in this country. Its important, I value it and it was directly relevant to the question asked. If others disagree - thats fine - however a little good manners is not too much to ask

Red
 
For goodness sake can we just get back on topic. I didn't set up this post for people to squabble over. I get enough of that with my 7 & 4 year old boys at home!

PLEASE can we keep things on topic. Everyone has had their say - lets leave it at that. Just kiss and make up.

This really doesn't set a good example for new members to the site.
 
At the risk of opening another can o' wrigglies, are any bushie-type activities peculiar to Britain?

Edit: Sorry, I should perhaps qualify that and add; or is the culture of the British Isles too much of an amalgam of other cultures, e.g. Celtic, Saxon, Norman, Scandinavian?
 
Thanks Andy E. It's something I have considered. Archery for example is not limited to Britain yet there are specific types of bow originating here. It may well be that there are no specific bushcraft skills that can be labelled as "British" but there may be some that can be labelled as "the British style". It is these differences that I think are important.

I think it is this amalgam of all the different cultures that can lead to variations of merthods / tools etc are not seen elsewhere
 
Interesting point Wolfie. I was watching a programme the other night which suggested that the English Longbow was developed after the experience of the Crusades and middle-eastern bows, or at least the recurve of the longbow was. Other people suggest that it's Scandinavian in origin. Either way it makes you think.
 
At the risk of opening another can o' wrigglies, are any bushie-type activities peculiar to Britain?

Edit: Sorry, I should perhaps qualify that and add; or is the culture of the British Isles too much of an amalgam of other cultures, e.g. Celtic, Saxon, Norman, Scandinavian?

This came to my mind too. It is a long time since we had any "Native" peoples living really close to the land. That isn't to say that some of the older country folk don't have a wealth of knowledge, but they are getting a rare breed. The last 100 years has really seen it tail off. I think that the knowledge has survived better in hunting/fishing activities and in craft work, although in both cases, whether it has been preserved, or whether the knowledge keeps being rediscovered could be debated.

Wolfie,
Which bows are you thinking of when you say that they originate here?
 
I was thinking of the English Longbow but please correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: Maybe originate is the wrong word. Are they a development of another type of bow that is mainly seen in England / Britain? Or is the term totally misleading?
 
Certainly within the craftwork much of it survives. Basketry for instance, specific baskets for specific tasks using materials native to, or abundant in, certain areas. The oat straw and rush kishie back carryied basket of Scotland, sometimes made using docken stems, for instance; the wide shallow oak splint tattie (or acorn, or chestnut) gathering baskets, and the like.
Shoemaking, harness making and spinning, dyeing and weaving also come to mind.
I was working besides an 86 year old blacksmith on Monday, he says his sons are carrying on his trade :cool:
The coracle, yawl and curragh builders too continue a long craft tradition indigenous to these Isles.
Potters, I know some who still dig and lay down to age, their own clay. I know of one lady who makes hearth fired pots with shell temper that are unmistakeably the same pots that we find in excavations of two thousand years ago, and she was taught by an old lady in the village that gave it's name to the style of pot, Barvas ware.

Cheers,
Toddy
 
My take on things is slightly different perhaps to others views,i have watched all the ray mears programs and whether it was the innuits, kalahari bushmen,massai,aborigine's they all showed how they hunted for meat and game,with bows arrows, spears ect,and every one's wow,what about all are history of living of the land hunting with a bow then with guns,were no different to any other peoples,we have just adapted to were we live,are skills are as good as any one else's, we can find food for free as good as any other peoples,take any of these peoples and put them in our environment and they'd struggle like we would in there's.

Bernie
 
Toddy, I think it is precisely these regional variations that I am thinking of. Do they apply to other bushcraft activities as well as the craft produce. Can we distinguish between a British fishing spear, shelter, way of cooking burdock to that of our European cousins?

(Hope this makes sense)
 
Not knowing much about boats, I had to look up a couple of those: first thing that sprung from the page was this ...

A yawl (from Dutch Jol) ;)

.. and the coracle / curragh isn't unique to these islands either, similar craft are found in other parts of the world from Tibet to the Americas. Perhaps it's a case of convergent design - if it's easy(-ish) to make and it works it stand to reason that others will think of it too.

Then again it continues to pose the question is it just that the design is older than historical record, from a common source and those craftsmen have simply added their own refinements? In the same way that traditional pottery skills were developed many thousands of years ago and far from these shores, yet culturally we've put our own stamp on the art.
 
Toddy, I think it is precisely these regional variations that I am thinking of. Do they apply to other bushcraft activities as well as the craft produce. Can we distinguish between a British fishing spear, shelter, way of cooking burdock to that of our European cousins?

(Hope this makes sense)

There are differences in typology of tools from region to region, but to tie it down and say, this is uniquely British.....hmmm. A billhook is a case inpoint, there are dozens of different types in England alone...but they are all billhooks. Flint arrowheads however, I know one archaeologist who reckons he can tell the differences between tribes and their hunting lands by the way they made their arrowheads...and he got a PhD out of it too :cool:
Spears? no idea, wood rots too commonly to be tied down so tightly that there would be no dispute. The oldest bow found in the UK was a Carafaen, where they are now planting a forest for a new millenium.

Cultural differences come through though; we don't eat horses or dogs in the UK for instance, while it is certainly common enough in other countries.
We also have no really widespread fungi for edible use traditions, the church frowned on toadstools (sic) and landowners proscribed collecting anything that might be of use without it being to their benefit, and the enclosures put paid to much of what was left of knowledge.
Burdock and the like....technically these fall under the heading of famine foods....in fact much of the stuff we gather does.
The UK is an agricultural/ pastoral economy that was first to change into an Industrial one, and, it could be argued that it is now the first post industrial economy :rolleyes: The change between being a rural society to an urbanised society happened within two generations here. An awful lot of knowledge was just no longer relevant or important.

The crafts that survive, some of the plant works, and a few of the fishing techniques are probably it.


cheers,
Toddy
 
Can i ask what a "drove road" is? I have never heard of them before. Sound interesting. How and where do you find them?

Drove roads are the roads that beasts; cattle, geese, sheep and the like; were walked along to market. In Scotland these can lead from the Highland all the way to Perth, Stirling, and the Border towns like Jedburgh.
They are marked on OS maps and are of very ancient provenance. Many of them follow the old highway, the dry walking ground that our ancestors took to move around these lands when they couldn't get by water.

Actually, these might be (somebody please check ) fine for bushcrafters because where they still exist as trackways/ right of ways/ greenlanes they will still have the wide overnight stopping places for camping.
This is where Scots Law and the rest of the UK confuses things for me, I don't know if it is permitted South of the Border.

cheers,
Toddy
 
Jojo - As far as my knowledge goes a drove road is a road used by drovers (stockmen) to move their cattle across the country - from pasture to market? Attleborough Accessories has a book called The Drovers on the subject.

Toddy - Maybe I should be asking bushcrafters to look at their own regional variations rather than using the term British. The main thing is that our own culture is not lost just because it is trendy to use a certain tool or method "rediscovered" in another part of the world. The variations found in the UK have evolved to suit these conditions and as most of us wil only be using them here why use any other?

As for the loss of knowledge of our past and the methods /tools used I think that WW1 probably caused a great loss of knowledge due to the huge number of men killed from all over Britain.
 
For goodness sake can we just get back on topic. I didn't set up this post for people to squabble over. I get enough of that with my 7 & 4 year old boys at home!

PLEASE can we keep things on topic. Everyone has had their say - lets leave it at that. Just kiss and make up.

This really doesn't set a good example for new members to the site.
Hi Wolfie, great post, despite the squabling. I have not been at the forum for a long time due to getting fed up with squabling ruining my experience here.

Britain is made up of so many tribes, that if we are not fighting someone we are fighting among ourselves. Fighting became a part of our bushcraft in that we took/stole things from people who had made/farmed them. So maybe squabling is a bit of a national sport.
 

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