British bushcraft - a dying art?

[Wayland]

Just to stay a little confusion until I find the relevent link for those with an interest.

Hunting any bird or mammal was prohibited by the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981
Part 1, Section 5 and 11

This was a fair time ago now so it's likely the pros and cons are well buried however, in reply to a previous comment, the Countryside Alliance didn't help because it / we only formed 1997 with the amalgamation of several bodies including the BFSS.

Mike

But I notice none of these bodies gave a hoot while we were trying to fight our corner.

The bow was always the weapon of the poor and surprise surprise nothing has changed.

 

[MikeDB]

But I notice none of these bodies gave a hoot while we were trying to fight our corner.

The bow was always the weapon of the poor and surprise surprise nothing has changed.

I wasn't making comment about your belief as to who has more claim to the bow & I personally don't belive that the archers financial or economic background had anything to do with the Act being passed, certainly not in 1981.

I was only adding fact. As to the support lent to your cause by the BFSS I will admit failing memory. I trust you were a member though?

Mike

 

[Wayland]

I'm going to drop this because I feel a real rant coming on and this is not the place for it. :tapedshut

 

[firecrest]

Whilst I can appreciate the desire to retain some folk tradition this is one practice I do not have a problem with having received some modernisation. Were it not for the wonders of modern medicine and todays midwifery skills I would have lost both my wife and son.

I certainly agree! I dont lament the loss of these things, some things go out because newer advances are flat out better. Though it is a shame to see local people de-skilled and subsiquently communities erode that little bit further, Its not that I think we need to return to the past of high mortality childbirth.

 

[demographic]

Hundreds - fox hunting, "one for the pot", Stone Henge being able to be touched by the public, every countryman being able to own a shotgun, kids learning to hunt with airguns

Shall I go on?

Red

As far as I am aware, everyone over the age of fifteen that has access to land with permission to shoot on already can own a shotgun as long as they get a licence.

Although I have in the past had a shotgun and licence I just don't have the land to use one on now and as such wouldn't have anywhere with permission.
If I tried hard enough I am sure I could get permission but its a bit irresponsable to let people without permission on land access to a shotgun isn't it?

I didn't think the UKs gun laws were out of whack to be honest, theres not much need for handguns so they are as near as dammit outlawed and shotguns are OK as long as you can prove you have somewhere to use them, that seems fairly sensible to me anyway.

 

[demographic]

Can i ask what a "drove road" is? I have never heard of them before. Sound interesting. How and where do you find them?

Theres a few drovers roads up around this area and one way to tell them is by the huge wide verges because the drovers needed to feed the animals they were driving to market.

 

[Silverback]

I didn't think the UKs gun laws were out of whack to be honest, theres not much need for handguns so they are as near as dammit outlawed and shotguns are OK as long as you can prove you have somewhere to use them, that seems fairly sensible to me anyway.

Not much need for handguns as far as YOU are concerned however to those of us that legally held handguns for many years (myself a 125th anniversary Smith and Wesson 45 left to me by a very dear uncle) the blow was both painful and severe. If we are going to start taking away items based on 'need' then you can basically kiss goodbye to 90% of all hobbies. A key person heading up the Snowdrop Petition ran over and killed an innocent person whilst drunk but I didn't see them petitioning to take away cars or booze and surprisingly that particular individual very quickly disappeared from the spotlight. It was an omlette and eggs approach from the government badly thought out and incredibly naive. I am sure that would be armed robbers all over the country said to themselves "right I will throw that unmarked handgun away and only commit armed robbery with legally held firearms from now on" It is very easy to have an opinion on something that has never and is probably never likely to impact your life in any way! We are now the only country in the world where it is illegal to practice an olympic sport - how pathetic is that?

 

[hiraeth]

With regard to no need for handguns its worh pointing out perhaps that they will form part of the olympics in 2012 in london and our olympic team currently has to travel abroad to train.

 

[Bernie Garland]

With regard to no need for handguns its worh pointing out perhaps that they will form part of the olympics in 2012 in london and our olympic team currently has to travel abroad to train.

Also the shooting event will take place in the isle of man were its still legal to own handguns.

Bernie

 

[Path Finder]

Hi Wolfie

Just thought you might be interested to see how many schools there in the UK (60) in light of your question.

This is a little project I have set myself to find out how many schools there around, so far I have found 210 schools world wide, if you know of any that should be on the list do let me know.

Click on link:

http://wilderness-living-skills.blogspot.com/

 

[Wolfie]

Path Finder - Thanks for the info. My worry isn't really that bushcraft isn't being taught in the UK , it is more about what is being taught. I bet that on most of these courses it would be hard to tell them apart. Do any of these teach the local / British ways of doing things?. Most probably use Swedish made axes, teach Canadian canoeing . Not that there is anything wrong with this - I own the same kit and have been on the same courses. It would be nice to see courses incorporating locally made kit (knives, traditional axes, billhooks), local basketry techniques, local sayings / weather lore, local recipes using locally produce etc.

I agree with the thoughts of Celtic Ginger

I do believe though that the disposable age and the availability of cheap goods from abroad will slowly kill off the traditional crafts/skills, leaving only a very small core of enthusiasts to keep the flag flying. then when it's all gone, people will muse "Do you remember the old guy who used to make corricles? Shame no one can do it now"

 

[wanderinstar]

Well I have read this post with interest. Early on someone asked the question as to why hunting with bows was outlawed. Unless I have missed it , no one has answered that question. MikeDB tells us it was banned in 1981. But for what reason.
Was it because some hooligan shot a swan in the neck with a crossbow failing to kill the bird. That seems to ring distant bells. But if that was the case surely the same has happened with people shooting animals and not killing them outright. But I suppose a bullet or pellet is not as visible as say a 14" crossbow bolt.
Why did the archery fraternity not stand up more to the government. This is a question that has been nagging me for quite a while now.
So does anyone know?

 

[tanis]

Interesting subject i come from a farming background and when was a kid and picked up lots of titbits of info from laying snares to hedge laying to control of rats these days most people struggle to boil an egg and would be dead in a week if they had to feed themselves.Today i took my 8yr old son out with the dogs and i was showing him hedgerow greens which he found great fun its a shame more people dont do the same cheers tanis

 

[Matt.S]

Well I have read this post with interest. Early on someone asked the question as to why hunting with bows was outlawed. Unless I have missed it , no one has answered that question. MikeDB tells us it was banned in 1981. But for what reason.
Was it because some hooligan shot a swan in the neck with a crossbow failing to kill the bird. That seems to ring distant bells. But if that was the case surely the same has happened with people shooting animals and not killing them outright. But I suppose a bullet or pellet is not as visible as say a 14" crossbow bolt.
Why did the archery fraternity not stand up more to the government. This is a question that has been nagging me for quite a while now.
So does anyone know?

Incidents like that were probably the catalyst, if the many subsequent stupid bans are anything to go by.

I wouldn't be surprised if sport archers would have kicked up a ruckus and it not have made a difference. Look at 1997; something like 100,000 handgun shooters had their hobby cruelly crushed due to one shocking incident, which received much mass-media attention. Similar in 1988. Similar VCRA, similar Dangerous Dogs Act etc. etc. etc.

I was interested to notice that Gordon Hillman talked about the unfairness of the bowhunting ban in Wild Food.

 

[Toddy]

I think the catalyst back then was the indiscriminate use of crossbows, and sport archery then was focusing on the target shoots with their very complex bows. There simply weren't that many folks interested in resurrecting long bow hunting.
I think the long bow just got caught up in the whole process......like blowguns and swordsticks and the broadheads.

cheers,
Toddy.....who carries a scar on her ribs from an arrow shot at her over 40 years ago......when playing bows and arrows with your brother meant just what it said !

 

[Wayland]

Well I have read this post with interest. Early on someone asked the question as to why hunting with bows was outlawed. Unless I have missed it , no one has answered that question. MikeDB tells us it was banned in 1981. But for what reason.
Was it because some hooligan shot a swan in the neck with a crossbow failing to kill the bird. That seems to ring distant bells. But if that was the case surely the same has happened with people shooting animals and not killing them outright. But I suppose a bullet or pellet is not as visible as say a 14" crossbow bolt.
Why did the archery fraternity not stand up more to the government. This is a question that has been nagging me for quite a while now.
So does anyone know?

That's more or less it as I recall.

It was a bolt from a pistol crossbow in a duck that flew around evading capture but making lots of news pictures.

Nothing to do with real archery, just some yobs with something any fool could have used.

The moment the newspapers get involved so do politicians, who always want to be seen doing something, even if it's the wrong thing.

The rest as they say is history.

 

[xylaria]

There is a petition

I took up live action roleplaying because it was the only way I could shoot moving targets with a bow. It is a completly differant skill to hitting a boss. When I have seen footage of live birds with arrows sticking out of them it is normally crossbow bolts. It is the same arguement with guns, used with expertise and the correct arrow head, bows produce clean kills. Been able to buy poor quality crossbows and airguns easily and having no education into their safe useage means that idoits shoot local cats and parkland ducks instead of having easy access to proper training.

 

[Toddy]

I've said for a long time that the shooting/ hunting groups have done themselves no favours by not being pro active about training.

Every other damned thing we do nowadays has certificates for it, and we pay for the training that leads to the award of those certificates.

A nation wide programme of nationally recognised competency.....like a driving licence....that has to be obtained before a projectile weapon is allowed to be purchased or possessed.

Maybe not popular among hard core hunting/ shooting bods but tough luck, it's got to be better than the limitations they are struggling under now, and certainly in Scotland the proposed airgun ban is a current issue that shows no signs of going away. One more incident with banner headlines and the sport is dead in the water.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[robin wood]

Path Finder - Thanks for the info. My worry isn't really that bushcraft isn't being taught in the UK , it is more about what is being taught. I bet that on most of these courses it would be hard to tell them apart. Do any of these teach the local / British ways of doing things?. Most probably use Swedish made axes, teach Canadian canoeing . Not that there is anything wrong with this - I own the same kit and have been on the same courses. It would be nice to see courses incorporating locally made kit (knives, traditional axes, billhooks), local basketry techniques, local sayings / weather lore, local recipes using locally produce etc.

I agree with the thoughts of Celtic Ginger

Interesting thread this Wolfie, of course folk from Cobbett (1700's) to Morris (1800's) have bemoaned the loss of traditional skills. A recent Government report highlights the current state of craft skills. "Crafts in the English Countryside Towards a Future"

Personally when I think "bushcraft" I think hunter gatherer and we stopped being proper hunter gatherers 6000 years ago in the UK. I know plenty of folk will say "I still hunt and gather" but it is not the same. There are a lot of crafts and country lore that survive within our culture that are not only uniquely British but regional too. I think say of the oak swill basket of the lake district.....only Owen Jones left making those but it was an almost pre-industrial craft not really bushcraft like say Native American basketmaking.

To me bushcraft combines my interests in nature study and crafts and helps many people reconnect with an environment that we have become disconnected from, I don't think it is a problem using scandinavian techniques. If you want to look at original British bushcraft perhaps we should look back before the Neolithic when we became settled farmers. Even within the Neolithic many bushcraft skills would survive I would highly recommend "The Man in the Ice" by Konrad Spindler about Oetzi the ice man an amazing read. Shame non of the UK "bog bodies" have survived with such an incredible collection of artefacts. If you are into woodwork Caroline Earwoods book "domestic wooden artefacts in britain and ireland from neolithic to viking times" is good.

 

[xylaria]

The clock is doing wierd things it is very light outside to be 2am:umbrella:

If shooting and archery were cheaply avialable in poor areas so the people that get poor enough to consider shooting a park duck for tea knew what poundage it took kill evan a small animal maybe there would be less animal cruelty. I am also sure it would reduce the status of possessing a gun in rough areas if shooting was taught in urban schools. We have municible golf ranges why don't we have the same for target shooting.