Bringing back Britain's large carnivores

[Harvestman]

I agree with you on the likelihood (or rather the UN-likelihood) of large predators coming through the tunnel. Not in any numbers sufficient for a breeding population at any rate.

However I fail to see how a scant 22 miles of the Channel is any barrier to rabid bats.

For most European bat species, 22 miles is a very long way to fly, and many, if not most, will not fly away from their preferred habitat. A large expanse of water like the channel is a highly effective barrier against most bats. Some will cross, inevitably, but it has to be enough to start a viable population. Let's just say it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Toddy]

There aren't that many snakes that survive happily in our generally cool, temperate (often sodden wet ) climate.
I think I'm right in saying that the escaped terrapins (turtles? not sure which) that are living wild don't manage to breed because it's too cold for them to succeed.

If, and it's a big if, the sea ice grew massively southwards from Greenland and over towards Europe, then polar bears *might* manage to land.......but it's a heck of a distance and there's no reliable depth of snow in a big enough area for them to hibernate. Plenty of seals for food though.

Some of the foxes are becoming really big; I sometimes wonder if they're going to exploit other niches, but I haven't yet heard of them taking down a sheep bigger than a young lamb, or chasing deer either.
Escaped/released big cats might survive, we wonder that some already do, but they are known to avoid human contact anyway.

Basically the apex predator of the British Isles is us.

I wondered about bats; one of my friends has done the bat handling certificate courses, and she reckons that they're really struggling numbers wise here now.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[santaman2000]

For most European bat species, 22 miles is a very long way to fly, and many, if not most, will not fly away from their preferred habitat. A large expanse of water like the channel is a highly effective barrier against most bats. Some will cross, inevitably, but it has to be enough to start a viable population. Let's just say it hasn't happened yet.

I didn't realize that European bats were that limited in their distance flying. Some of our species probably are as well, but others fly over 100 miles a night.

That said, I wasn't really thinking of European bats populating the UK as such. Rather I thinking that it only takes a single rabid bat to bring rabies into the country.

 

[Toddy]

We call bats Flittermice. They're that small they're just wee flying mice

M

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Rather I thinking that it only takes a single rabid bat to bring rabies into the country.

Very unlikely. Although the odd dead rabid bat is occassionally found in the N.E. of France, it's highly unprobable a sick bat could fly accross the channel. Once an animal has the clinical signs of rabies & thus most likely to bite if handled, it will be dead within 48 hours. The strain of rabies carried by bats is different to that of other mammals such as foxes but still mortal to humans without treatment.
If rabid bats were that much of a risk, there would be frequent cases of animals & humans getting infected in areas where bats are known to carry rabies, which just isn't the case.

 

[Harvestman]

Some of the foxes are becoming really big; I sometimes wonder if they're going to exploit other niches, but I haven't yet heard of them taking down a sheep bigger than a young lamb, or chasing deer either.

Mary, at the risk of opening a new can of worms, UK foxes are already known to kill adult sheep. Not often, but they will.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

We call bats Flittermice. They're that small they're just wee flying mice

M

That's interesting;

In France they're called chauve-souris (bald mouse) & in German, Fledermaus (flying mouse)

Wonder why we call them bats ? ....................guess we're just batty

 

[Niels]

That's interesting;

In France they're called chauve-souris (bald mouse) & in German, Fledermaus (flying mouse)

Wonder why we call them bats ? ....................guess we're just batty

Here there called 'Vleermuis' which means 'winged mouse'. You'll just have to accept your language is weird

 

[santaman2000]

1. Very unlikely. Although the odd dead rabid bat is occassionally found in the N.E. of France, it's highly unprobable a sick bat could fly accross the channel. Once an animal has the clinical signs of rabies & thus most likely to bite if handled, it will be dead within 48 hours. The strain of rabies carried by bats is different to that of other mammals such as foxes but still mortal to humans without treatment.
   If rabid bats were that much of a risk, there would be frequent cases of animals & humans getting infected in areas where bats are known to carry rabies, which just isn't the case.

   
   Actually they're the leading carrier here. At one time skunks were the leading carrier. It's difficult to keep up as the story changes every so often with new research or even who's conducting the research. Here's a link: www.batcon.org/pdfs/rabies/B&RBrochureaspages.pdf

 

[Toddy]

Mary, at the risk of opening a new can of worms, UK foxes are already known to kill adult sheep. Not often, but they will.

Now that I hadn't heard.....maybe the fox will develop into an apex predator in time
I know an enormous one ran across the road in front of my car one night, and if it hadn't been for the black tip to the tail, I'd have thought it was an alsation sized canine. Big, hefty, fit and healthy looking, and quick too. I know that it's likely feeding on the best of land, but it still surprised me just how big it was.

Interesting the other names for bats , surprising how alike many of them are.


cheers,
M

 

[Gasparo]

*head pops up* This thread is really frustrating. All the talk about how the wilds can't come back because there isn't enough space OR understanding.
That's no way to look at a wrong, just say oh well we messed up and there's nothing we can do about it now. I say MAKE space and MAKE people understand! No chance of people giving stuff up for it though.. like their 3 vehicles, TV in every room, lights on 24/7 and everything having to be done RIGHT NOW... so yeah, you guys are probably right. *head goes quietly back into the sand*

 

[rik_uk3]

*head pops up* This thread is really frustrating. All the talk about how the wilds can't come back because there isn't enough space OR understanding.
That's no way to look at a wrong, just say oh well we messed up and there's nothing we can do about it now. I say MAKE space and MAKE people understand! No chance of people giving stuff up for it though.. like their 3 vehicles, TV in every room, lights on 24/7 and everything having to be done RIGHT NOW... so yeah, you guys are probably right. *head goes quietly back into the sand*

MOST people don't want them, don't want to be told they HAVE to want them by the minority either simple as that.

Back to bats, this is the type that really worry me

 

[Gasparo]

So who gives a s**t about the animals but aren't the flowers and trees pretty... back to jokes *thumbs up*

 

[Toddy]

Did anyone say we didn't ??
Really ?

What we did say was that we're the apex predator and no apex predator takes kindly to any other on it's territory, especially since the aforementioned other apex predators will eventually come into conflict with us.
We're on islands, there is no give in the space, and these islands are attractive enough that even when we do limit our own population growth others of our species simply move in
As has already been said too; the wolves and bears have been gone so long from our islands that they are no longer considered native species.
It's not a simple thing; it's a rather complex issue to reintroduce species to a limited and constrained habitat.

Toddy

 

[Gasparo]

... ..
lol ok

 

[santaman2000]

What use are they?

The pelts are very useful and indeed very profitable.

 

[tomongoose]

Talking of large fox's http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-17259087

Gasparo I would love to see a huge chunk of the UK cleared of humans and left to the wild, as long as it wasn't my chunk

 

[Dave]

This is an interesting documentary about how different European countries, Italy, Romania, France, Spain, Germany, Norway, Sweden etc etc etc manage to co-exist with their populations of wild wolves.

[video=youtube;qb1krpx9bCY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb1krpx9bCY[/video]

 

[salad]

We call bats Flittermice. They're that small they're just wee flying mice

M

Ha, thats actually the proper german word for bats, although they spell it slightly different "fledermaus" . The way it is pronounced is the same tho

Its my favourite german word I have learnt since moving over here and I often point out to people that batman does not sound so tough when you call him "Herr Fledermaus mann"

 

[blacktimberwolf]

*head pops up* This thread is really frustrating. All the talk about how the wilds can't come back because there isn't enough space OR understanding.
That's no way to look at a wrong, just say oh well we messed up and there's nothing we can do about it now. I say MAKE space and MAKE people understand! No chance of people giving stuff up for it though.. like their 3 vehicles, TV in every room, lights on 24/7 and everything having to be done RIGHT NOW... so yeah, you guys are probably right. *head goes quietly back into the sand*

I understand your frustration Gasparo & we'll all have to change our habits & lifestyles very soon if we wish to continue our existances in relative comfort in the future. Regarding the introduction of large predators into the UK, there are those for & those agin but those in favour are probably thinking more about themselves than the well being of the animals to be introduced. As already mentioned but for some it needs to be repeated so that it sinks in, the UK is very heavily populated & the land over cultivated. There are no 'natural' areas left in the UK now & the UK's population is destined to rise, which means even more land needed to house them & feed them which means there will be increasingly less space for the already existing wildlife. How do you plan we "make space " ?
It isn't enough just to want something when the practicalities make it impossible.

Introduce wolves into the UK & they'll end up like this, shot or poisoned........

Anyone who likes, respects, knows..... wolves (or any large predator) cannot be in favour of their introduction into the UK. Let us concentate our efforts on maintaining the wildlife & bio diversity that already exists & do what we can to reduce our impact on their habitats.