Bowhunting and how to start

[Countryman]

""Honestly appalled by the lack of concern this post shows!""

Oh, well.

And you have a very British attitude that only an expert, one who can afford huge amounts of money and time should hunt. As you say - you would demand the shooter hit a 4 inch disk at 100 m (100 yards? or do you mean 10.16 cm?) Who can afford that skill level? Not your regular guy. You fail to say what stance this great shot is to be made from - and how many out of how many must be inside.


I am Honestly appalled by the exclusiveness this post shows! God - I suppose next deer will have to be electrically stunned like in halal slaughter before a regular person can shoot them if this is the prevailing attitude.

But there it is, I will leave the shooting thread as I offend you. I got my first gun at 9, have hunted all my life till about 10 years ago. I shot competitively, my brother, father, grandfather certified military marksman, I have carried firearms for work, and worked with with the public and firearms. I imagine I could hit your disk - but then I have shot a very large amount. I do not think someone has to be like us to hunt. Animals die. I have lived years in the bush, nature is a nasty bitch - cruel and more cruel. That is how it is. We do the best we can within reason - but within reason obviously means a different thing to us.

unsubscribed.

We are clearly not going to see eye to eye on this matter but we would agree I think on doing our best by the hunted animal.

With the relative cost of ammunition in Walmart competent Marksmanship wouldn't cost much in the U.S.! Hardly elitism!

It's a 4" disc at 100 yards. I've posted details of DSC1 above. We try to achieve a quick one shot kill.

Would just point out that the general objection to Halal slaughter is that the animal is NOT stunned prior to its throat being slit. It's just allowed to bleed out.


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[Tony]

Just as a reminder to all, this was the OP, so the way this thread has gone off track does not help this chap at all, he asked for advice and then, when he reads through this lot he's ever going to ask again, a little consideration is something that works both sides of the Atlantic on multiple continents.

In this thread there really should not be the silly fighting going on, sure there's differences of opinion and there always will be but the personal slights that seem to be felt are misplaced. Everyone has different experiences and some do things for sport and others do things from necessity, there's valid contributions from everyone, but little value to stroppy condescension that seems to have been introduced.

So i'll start by saying i know it's illegal to hunt with a bow here in jolly olde England. But i've been talking a lot with my girlfriend recently about visiting her family in Alberta, Canada, and she mentioned that her brother in law is a bow hunter and it might be an idea to go out hunting with him while i'm over there. I've looked it up and the law is straightforward enough, i just need to pass a conservation and environment course (which i can do online) and get the necessary tags, and i'm good to go.

I'm comfortable out in the field but have never hunted before, and I've also shot bows a few times for fun when younger but never specifically trained with them. Obviously i don't want to half **** it and risk making a bad shot that doesn't humanely kill the deer, so if i am going to do it i plan on getting better with a bow first. So i'm really asking 2 questions:

1) What's the best way to improve? I could buy a relatively cheap bow just for practising, and then just practice at different ranges as often as i could. I live in London and looked at a few archery clubs, but they all seem to have a mandatory beginners course they charge £125 for, which seems steep considering it only offer a certificate (which i have no use for) and trains you how to shoot olympic style on an indoor range (which seems not entirely relevant to what i want). Or... something completely different. Suggestions are welcome.

2) What sort of bow should i be looking at buying? Just looking for rough guidelines here, style, draw weight, etc. I will probably buy it once i'm in Canada as it makes transport easier, and because Canada is a much cheaper place to shop.

Anyway, hope to hear from some of you soon.

 

[Countryman]

Well, I've genuinely tried to help. There are evident differences in attitude to hunting both in Europe and America although I would suggest these are more pronounced on this forum than I have ever encountered in person with my brethren in the U.S. and Canada.

Crossbow by design would be easier to shoot accurately than bow. Bow will take considerable time to learn from scratch. Hunting seasons in Canada are likely to be the same as Bow and Crossbow.

Target size should probably be 4" on most deer species for a heart/ lung shot. You should be able to repeatedly hit this size target at the distance you hope to shoot at before you undertake a hunt but be aware that taking a life is not easy and imposes pressures that you will struggle to replicate in practice. I applaud the OP wanting to make a humane job of this.

Tony I'm sorry. I have just tried to answer points as they have come up. Yes that has dragged focus away from the OP's points. Nothing personal in any case. Certainly not trying to be condescending to anybody just stating factually what most Europeans would consider as best practice.

Bow hunting is of course illegal here and is always an emotive discussion wherever I've seen it discussed. Actually this has been better tolerated here than most other forums I've seen it come up.


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[mrcharly]

4" is pretty small . . . I think the kill area for broadheads would be more like 8" - I've explained why up above. Countryman has highlighted an important point: "at the distance you hope to shoot at". For me, when I hunted small game, that was about 10m or less.

George probably doesn't understand the shooting conditions here. The shots are taken at standing deer, from a distance, with the shooter prone and using a scope. Most people should be able to hit 4" under those conditions. No dogs involved.

 

[Countryman]

Mostly standing off sticks down here in the West Country.


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[21st century pict]

Just as a reminder to all, this was the OP, so the way this thread has gone off track does not help this chap at all, he asked for advice and then, when he reads through this lot he's ever going to ask again, a little consideration is something that works both sides of the Atlantic on multiple continents.

In this thread there really should not be the silly fighting going on, sure there's differences of opinion and there always will be but the personal slights that seem to be felt are misplaced. Everyone has different experiences and some do things for sport and others do things from necessity, there's valid contributions from everyone, but little value to stroppy condescension that seems to have been introduced.

On that note , perhaps I should publicly apologise to Countryman for any offence I caused him on a similar thread, Sorry Buddy my bad. "Groundhog day" like it, From now on I'll try "try" and keep my big trap shut...

 

[mrcharly]

Mostly standing off sticks down here in the West Country.

How does that work? Are the 'sticks' like a camera tripod or just a single supporting stick?

 

[Countryman]

On that note , perhaps I should publicly apologise to Countryman for any offence I caused him on a similar thread, Sorry Buddy my bad. "Groundhog day" like it, From now on I'll try "try" and keep my big trap shut...

Picty mate, thanks for this.

The problem with the Internet is that everything is so literal. I suspect as a conversation around a campfire this would have gone very differently.

Thanks, apology accepted and hand virtually extended.




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[santaman2000]

4" is pretty small . . . I think the kill area for broadheads would be more like 8" - I've explained why up above. Countryman has highlighted an important point: "at the distance you hope to shoot at". For me, when I hunted small game, that was about 10m or less.

George probably doesn't understand the shooting conditions here. The shots are taken at standing deer, from a distance, with the shooter prone and using a scope. Most people should be able to hit 4" under those conditions. No dogs involved.

I'd agree with you on the target size. As somebody (possibly you) already said, practice until you can reliably hit a paper plate at the range you expect.

Often hunting here also involves still shots. Dog hunting for deer is getting smaller every year and even smaller for cougar. Shots at antelope are normally far greater than 100 yards though; 200-300 shots are more common.

Regarding Walmart ammo, it ain't cheap. Centerfire hunting ammo is priced anywhere between $0.80 and $2.00 per round before sales tax. Practice ammo can be had cheaper from online sources (maybe 2/3 that price) but only in certain calibers. YES, it is indeed possible to reach the level of proficiencey for a 4" shot at 100 yards (I try for a 1" group at that range when sighting my rifles) But it's far from the normal hunting scenario.

 

[santaman2000]

Well, I've genuinely tried to help. There are evident differences in attitude to hunting both in Europe and America although I would suggest these are more pronounced on this forum than I have ever encountered in person with my brethren in the U.S. and Canada......

.......Bow hunting is of course illegal here and is always an emotive discussion wherever I've seen it discussed. Actually this has been better tolerated here than most other forums I've seen it come up......

.......The problem with the Internet is that everything is so literal. I suspect as a conversation around a campfire this would have gone very differently.

Thanks, apology accepted and hand virtually extended........

Agreed on all points. Hopefully one day we can do just that, sit around a fire in person. I'd like to offer my apologies as well for any offense.

 

[Countryman]

How does that work? Are the 'sticks' like a camera tripod or just a single supporting stick?

Can be a single stick or they can get quite convoluted but really typically they are a couple of 5 foot bean poles from the garden tied together in an X at the top. Rifle goes in the V at the top of the X. Light, portable and stable once you get the hang.


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[Countryman]

Agreed on all points. Hopefully one day we can do just that, sit around a fire in person. I'd like to offer my apologies as well for any offense.

Group hug?


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[santaman2000]

Group hug?


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LOL. I'll hold off that for a bit.

 

[santaman2000]

Furthar upstream somebody made comments about whether the OP is willing to kill at close range. I found a video giving a couple of fairly common bow kills (WARNING! KILL SHOTS!!) Before anybody asks why the hunter doesn't immediately follow the deer to finish it, there is a valid reason. As somebody already pointed out, it's better to wait until they fall. Otherwise they'll keep running as far as they can (sometimes for a mile or more) The video also reminded me that in most places (in the US anyway) the requirements for bright orange don't applt during archery season. Also archery season usually allows for doe harvest. https://youtu.be/zLkojDyflf0

 

[santaman2000]

And this one of a bowhunt for Bighorn Ram hunt in Alberta https://youtu.be/68y_hlq12w4

 

[Klenchblaize]

Hi Folcwigga
Now you've either been put off completely or had your resolve strengthened by all these over-thought or prejudice-fuelled obstacles to what is a perfectly natural desire to hunt, may we have an update please and hopefully one that promises a nice write up of your adventure?‎

All the best 

K‎

 

[Robson Valley]

Folcwigga: I live in the mountains in BC, just out of the west side of Jasper National Park. We have moose, elk, black bear, grizzly, cougar, white tail deer, mule deer, mountain sheep and mountain goats and the bow hunters to with those. My next door neighbor is a very competent bow hunter, both here and off shore. He shoots some 50 arrows, twice a week, long before the bow season begins. Very complicated compound bows, too. From this village, the middle of nowhere is about 20 minutes away so lots of forest and wide open spaces (gravel pits, etc) to practice to your heart's content.
FWIW, you have got to get in some serious practice before you come over. An archery club might be a place to look for used equipment.

Each year, Field & Stream publishes a list called the "Best-of-the-Best," a tested review of outdoor fishing/hunting/camping gear. Find it on line and read a few years of the bow section. Take notes to get a sense of brands and features.

Here is the situation as it applies to British Columbia:
1. As a foreign national, you couldn't hunt for anything without a licenced guide.
2. Your licence fee is 10X what I paid before I retired, now I don't pay even half of that.
3. Most licencing is done by a Limited Entry lottery draw for reasons of population management.
I got one moose tag in 10 years. Deer was easier to get = the odds were better.

However, you ought to come over to AB and try to get out on a bow hunt, even if you shoot a camera.