so if bows are so inaccurate. ...how do people manage to purposley shoot turkeys in the neck
? your rant sounds like its based on personal opinion imho
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Bowhunting and how to start
- Thread starter Folcwigga
- Start date
? your rant sounds like its based on personal opinion imho
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People miss the sweet spot with high powered rifles as well. To be honest with you i dont believe the Deer or whatever even know what has happened.
Gut shots are every bowhunters worst nightmare and should only happen if the Animal jumps the shot. No excuses for poor form or a poor shooting choices.
in all fairness the broadhead is like two 4" thin blades. Usually takes the head clean off and saves the body meat from being damaged.
im aware of this Steve , even with a 4" blade its still a skilled shot imho . ive seen the spinning tips they use...mvery effective 👍
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Loadfs of reasons to bowhunt. Some like the challenge. Others are archers already and want to stay traditional. Still others just want to take advantage of the extra season (Bow season is often a separate hunting season to the other two) It would seem that the OP wants to try an opportunity that's likely once, maybe twice, in his lifetime.
I no longer deer hunt but my wife keeps telling me to go, she likes venison. I just cannot seem to get the drive together for all the processes. The nearest public hunting land is 45 miles away - then you need to scout first - and being public someone else may will be around and most of them are idiots. We shot a lot of deer on public lands - I once took up practicing with a bow to be able to get out before the gun hunters but gave it up because the fear of a practice arrow deflecting odd something and causing injury - I did not live remote. Now most American hunters have hunting leases from landowners they get as small clubs - I have no interest in joining one of those.
But what I think is the possibility of a muzzle loader firearm. Often they get an early hunt, are very easy to master, are cheap. I do not know how they are in Canada, but in most USA they have some advantages of early seasons, or either sex allowed. I owned a shotgun certificate in England many years ago but have no idea of laws about muzzle loading rifles there. Are they allowed? Do people hunt with them? I had an antique muzzle loading rifle back in England and tried it for clay pigeons - the thought that it needed to be licensed never even came up (I had legal shotguns) - it was a genuine old one that still worked (I know, dangerous as the steel is not proofed - and some like Damascus age badly) - but I was able to get black powder from a place that fired cannons - not legally, but just given it. I used shotgun primers I think, for caps. Edit - no, I cut down .22 rimfire cartridges and used them as caps. That was a long time ago.
But what I think is the possibility of a muzzle loader firearm. Often they get an early hunt, are very easy to master, are cheap. I do not know how they are in Canada, but in most USA they have some advantages of early seasons, or either sex allowed. I owned a shotgun certificate in England many years ago but have no idea of laws about muzzle loading rifles there. Are they allowed? Do people hunt with them? I had an antique muzzle loading rifle back in England and tried it for clay pigeons - the thought that it needed to be licensed never even came up (I had legal shotguns) - it was a genuine old one that still worked (I know, dangerous as the steel is not proofed - and some like Damascus age badly) - but I was able to get black powder from a place that fired cannons - not legally, but just given it. I used shotgun primers I think, for caps. Edit - no, I cut down .22 rimfire cartridges and used them as caps. That was a long time ago.
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That's the case here in the Souteast but not out West. I'm lucky enough to have access to three very large public areas here: 1)just a few miles south the Eglin Military Reservation is open to public recreation (including hunting and fishing) 2) Blackwater River State Forest begins just 5 or 6 miles west of me and runs westward across 3 counties; 3) the Conecah National Forest is a bit farther north starting at the Alabama State line. The three total to around 1.5 million acres.
You aren't entirely wrong. Archery gear is less likely to result in a quick painless death than a high powered rifle - that's why ethical hunters (the majority) do everything possible to maximize their effectiveness and be respectful to the quarry. Of course it's still more efficient yet to slaughter animals within a commercial meat production environment - even then there is a fair amount of mental and physical suffering involved. Anyone who says otherwise has never been involved in it, or is in denial.
It is very dificult to effectively explain hunting to someone who has never done it, but I will say this - unless you are a vegan you are a participant in the ugly process that turns living creatures into meat. I'm not a vegan.
The advice to use one pin and aim higher is not advice to be sloppy. An arrow has a trajectory like a rainbow, and archers have to adjust their aim higher or lower to compensate for distance. Some use sights that are graduated - 20 yards, 30 yards, 40 yards etc. But that often results in using the wrong pin out of several in the heat of the moment while in the presence of game. Using one 20 yard pin and raising the point of aim a bit for a 30 yard shot eliminates that sort of confusion.
Neither Bows nor Muzzleloaders (other than shotguns) are legal to hunt live quarry with in the UK. Expanding ammunition and in the case of larger species appropriate muzzle velocities and energy must be used. Shotguns may only be used on Deer in extraordinary circumstances that require separate licensing.
You have a much larger margin of error with a firearm. Not only do you have the wound channel and blood loss you have an enormous cavitation wave that a high velocity bullet causes that pulps surrounding organs and the hydrostatic shock of such enormous energy being dumped into the body that can simply overwhelm the systems of the target.
Firearms are much more humane.
Bows require more skill to deliver a humane kill. Crossbows have less margin for error but are easier to transition from a firearm. Both are covered as bows during hunting season that side of the Atlantic.
Personally I wouldn't hunt with either given a choice but as I have said elsewhere I wouldn't wish to hamper the freedoms of those with the skill and rights to do so.
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I've never hunted with a sight but I think this is very sound advice. Using broadheads changes the effective diameter of an arrow to a couple of inches; that's much much more than any bullet. So if you are shooting for, say, the heart/lung area, you have a relatively large target (on a deer) and a large object. Any solid hit with a sharp broadhead to the heart or lungs will kill the deer relatively (within minutes) quickly.
"Archery gear is less likely to result in a quick painless death than a high powered rifle - that's why ethical hunters (the majority) do everything possible to maximize their effectiveness and be respectful to the quarry. "
I would not worry about this too much. The natural end of a wild animal is usually long and horrible - want, injury, and sickness. Hunting keeping populations in control is a great kindness and that beginners and those who cannot afford the time and costs to become really expert should still hunt if they wish. Bow hunters are not substantially different in wounding to gun hunters. The boradheads are apparently so traumatic bleeding to death will typically happen - or the animal survive. A rifle or shotgun injury is simple enough to track if you wait for the animal to finish running before running it way off. A gut shot deer is dead with a rifle, and I have found not too hard to track. I assume this is true of arrow injuries too.
Learning to track a poorly hit animal is as important as getting expert with the weapon. I have lost very few deer by being a good tracker.
I think it is OK for someone not that good with their weapon to hunt. Society needs citizens to hunt and it should be something the people who cannot invest the time and money in - still can do.
I would not worry about this too much. The natural end of a wild animal is usually long and horrible - want, injury, and sickness. Hunting keeping populations in control is a great kindness and that beginners and those who cannot afford the time and costs to become really expert should still hunt if they wish. Bow hunters are not substantially different in wounding to gun hunters. The boradheads are apparently so traumatic bleeding to death will typically happen - or the animal survive. A rifle or shotgun injury is simple enough to track if you wait for the animal to finish running before running it way off. A gut shot deer is dead with a rifle, and I have found not too hard to track. I assume this is true of arrow injuries too.
Learning to track a poorly hit animal is as important as getting expert with the weapon. I have lost very few deer by being a good tracker.
I think it is OK for someone not that good with their weapon to hunt. Society needs citizens to hunt and it should be something the people who cannot invest the time and money in - still can do.
In the UK you would be expected to hit a 4" disc at 100m to pass DSC1 which is as close as we have to a hunters certification.
If you were to stalk with me in the UK I would test this ability.
Not seen this level of commitment in Outfitters abroad.
Honestly appalled by the lack of concern this post shows!
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Actually no. Only a handful of states allow crossbows at all. Many of those only allow them during firearm season.
Over here hunting is more than just a sport though. It's both a right and a lifestyle. For some it's almost the entire means of feeding a family. Government over-regulation and intrusion would not be well tolerated, if at all.
Groundhog Day!
OP is talking about Canada (Alberta)
My first hand experience is of Ontario but whilst there are significant provincial differences I doubt these are as much as you talking about the States.
In Ontario crossbows are used in bow hunting season and enjoy a longer open season.
Over here it's a lifestyle too. I spent 2 great years as a Pro-Stalker.
The 4" disc test is one of competence not of regulation. It is driven by respect and is common across Europe.
Don't confuse firearm regulation and hunting Santaman. In many many respects hunting in the UK is much LESS regulated than either the U.S. or Canada.
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""Honestly appalled by the lack of concern this post shows!""
Oh, well.
And you have a very British attitude that only an expert, one who can afford huge amounts of money and time should hunt. As you say - you would demand the shooter hit a 4 inch disk at 100 m (100 yards? or do you mean 10.16 cm?) Who can afford that skill level? Not your regular guy. You fail to say what stance this great shot is to be made from - and how many out of how many must be inside.
I am Honestly appalled by the exclusiveness this post shows! God - I suppose next deer will have to be electrically stunned like in halal slaughter before a regular person can shoot them if this is the prevailing attitude.
But there it is, I will leave the shooting thread as I offend you. I got my first gun at 9, have hunted all my life till about 10 years ago. I shot competitively, my brother, father, grandfather certified military marksman, I have carried firearms for work, and worked with with the public and firearms. I imagine I could hit your disk - but then I have shot a very large amount. I do not think someone has to be like us to hunt. Animals die. I have lived years in the bush, nature is a nasty bitch - cruel and more cruel. That is how it is. We do the best we can within reason - but within reason obviously means a different thing to us.
unsubscribed.
Oh, well.
And you have a very British attitude that only an expert, one who can afford huge amounts of money and time should hunt. As you say - you would demand the shooter hit a 4 inch disk at 100 m (100 yards? or do you mean 10.16 cm?) Who can afford that skill level? Not your regular guy. You fail to say what stance this great shot is to be made from - and how many out of how many must be inside.
I am Honestly appalled by the exclusiveness this post shows! God - I suppose next deer will have to be electrically stunned like in halal slaughter before a regular person can shoot them if this is the prevailing attitude.
But there it is, I will leave the shooting thread as I offend you. I got my first gun at 9, have hunted all my life till about 10 years ago. I shot competitively, my brother, father, grandfather certified military marksman, I have carried firearms for work, and worked with with the public and firearms. I imagine I could hit your disk - but then I have shot a very large amount. I do not think someone has to be like us to hunt. Animals die. I have lived years in the bush, nature is a nasty bitch - cruel and more cruel. That is how it is. We do the best we can within reason - but within reason obviously means a different thing to us.
unsubscribed.
Yes, the OP was, but George wasn't, and neither was your response. "This side of the Atlantic" covers two entire continents.
I think we're approaching the word "lifestyle" from different directions. You're apparently thinking of it as an individual's lifestyle whereas I'm thinking of many generations of most of the rural population. It's a way of life to the extent that some counties school systems take a holiday around the opening weekend of hunting season. It's a way of life to the extent that different businesses in the Western states offer large prizes (guns, 4wd hunting vehicles, etc) for record deer or other big game in a given locale. Prizes based on things like: 1) the first deer/elk/cougar/etc. taken, 2) the biggest one taken, 3) the one with the biggest rack (most points)
You may have experienced it as a way of life personally, but I haven't heard you mention it as an overriding part of your entire family, friends, village/town/city/county/etc. to the extent that you have difficulty believing there are actually people over the age of 5 who have never hunted.
So tell e more about this competence to hit a 4" disk at 100 yds (or was it meters?) Do you do it in a manner that approaches actual deer hunting? I.E. a deer running across rough terrain in front of the dogs? Or is it stationary from a rest? No we don't use dogs when bowhunting but you were talking about rifle hunting.
Agreed that firearms regulation and hunting regulation aren't synonymous and in many ways your hunting is indeed less regulated there. In others, not so much: you don't allow centerfire 22 calibers such as .223 for small deer IIRC nor do you allow shotgun, and you've banned hunting such as fox hunting for it's own sake rather than based on population control.
You referenced the 4" test as if it were a legal requirement so I took it as it was. If as you now state, it's not, I stand corrected.
While I couldn't say for sure I would have to say they have the same reasons for it to vary among provinces as we do among states: namely that the country crosses the entire continent and the habitat and game varies widely. What makes sense in the woodlands of Quebec might not be so great an idea on the Great Plains in Sascathewan/Alberta, and those might not be so great in the Rockies of Alberta/B.C.
I wish more of our Canadian members would weigh in.
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Yes I have a very European attitude to the value of life.
An overview of our entry level DSC1 (Deer Stalking Certificate Level 1) http://www.bds.org.uk/deer_stalking_certificate_1.html
The sweet spot for Black Bear is only 2"!
In Germany being a Jaeger is a matter of honour even today.
We certainly don't close schools for it but there a good many people in the countryside of the UK that live a lifestyle based on not only stalking but lamping Foxes and Rabbits.
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An overview of our entry level DSC1 (Deer Stalking Certificate Level 1) http://www.bds.org.uk/deer_stalking_certificate_1.html
The sweet spot for Black Bear is only 2"!
In Germany being a Jaeger is a matter of honour even today.
We certainly don't close schools for it but there a good many people in the countryside of the UK that live a lifestyle based on not only stalking but lamping Foxes and Rabbits.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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