Bow Making help

[novembeRain]

I'm not winning with bow making, The bigest problem seems to be that I'm not "up to speed" with winter tree i.d'ing.

Anyway, I've tried three times now, once with birch (hopeless) once with something I'm unsure about (smooth blue / grey bark) and yesterday and today with what I think was ash but I'm not sure.

the first two times, I tried to get a "D" shape and this time I went for flat. The recent one certainly looked the part, it was about neck high on me (so about 5') and went from about an inch and a half thick at the handle to about 10mm thick at the ends. Most of the taper was in the first 4-5" from the handle with the rest being nearly paralell (tapering slightly) from about an inch thick at the handle end to 10mm at the end.

As it happens, it snapped where the more pronounced taper at the handle finished and gave way to the more gentle taper so I'd imagine that's what I'd got wrong. The wood was standing deadwood and fairly dry.

What did I do wrong? and any other tips?

The good thing is I've used my new axe for 10hrs in two days with no more injuries!! And it's held its edge

 

[Treemonk]

[cough]

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37508

[cough]

 

[dwardo]

I would make the bow atleast your own height to start with. An easy to ID tree for this is ash (fraxinus excelsior) sp ? dont let the name put you off
It has very smooth grey bark and the tips of the buds look like they have been dipped in black paint

Ash is easy to work and room dried in no time at all due to its very low RH. The growth rings are also easy to follow and no work is needed on the back as you can just de-bark it and yer done.

 

[novembeRain]

[cough]

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37508

[cough]

Thanks treemonk, Much as I appreciate the help I'm one of the many people hit by the recession and simply can't afford anything - which is how I can spend so much time out and about

Thankyou very much though.

 

[novembeRain]

I would make the bow atleast your own height to start with. An easy to ID tree for this is ash (fraxinus excelsior) sp ? dont let the name put you off
It has very smooth grey bark and the tips of the buds look like they have been dipped in black paint

Ash is easy to work and room dried in no time at all due to its very low RH. The growth rings are also easy to follow and no work is needed on the back as you can just de-bark it and yer done.

I know ash will make good bows, There's loads of it in "my" wood but most are HUGE! What I've been working on was, I think, ash - it was greyish yellow - which I assumed to be because it was dead. Unfortunately it had no shoots or anything - it was litteraly a standing "pole"!

would you start with a "pole" and split it roughly in half and work the flat side you'd created - so as to have the grain at (roughly) right angles to the draw? And what sort of widths and thicknesses would you aim for?

 

[dwardo]

I would go with a sister or daughter trunk of a living tree, white woods decay very quickly once they are dead. I know some people view the cutting of live trees differently but as long as its done where there are plenty and you have permission,, ie. not in a park

If you use dead standing wood its hard to know how long its dead standing.

I would also not use anything thats less than about a fists width thick, once down deabark and split into two or more bits, usually one in my case , seal the ends with pva or fat, grease anything really and leave in a coolish room, avoid radiators etc. I then rough down after a week or so do rough bow dimensions then leave it a week or so more. Then start to shape and tiller.

Good luck.

 

[Walks with dogs]

Silly question maybe, but do you "tiller" the bows and warm them up or do you just make em and then pull them?

 

[robin wood]

I would suggest flatbow rather than longbow to start, sounds to me like your ash was dead and part rotten, work with green living wood, it only takes a few days to dry indoors.

There is a whole section on bow tutorials on paleoplanet here http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/forums/60

or watch Fredde from Sweden on youtube here http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BFrT16vPHEg and here http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=j4mSz5qdvkc

 

[dwardo]

Silly question maybe, but do you "tiller" the bows and warm them up or do you just make em and then pull them?

Heat is only really involved when recurving limbs or trying to take out a twist or bend. The tillering bit is "just" removing wood to make it bend the way you want to.
If anyone has the cash i would say get in touch with robin and get on the course with Fredde. Skint at the min my self so if you have a few spare i think it would be a great spend.

Have a look at this you tube vids

 

[novembeRain]

Just to include a couple of pics, stave was about 3" dia

Lovely grain, may even make my next knife's scales from it;

Starting to take shape;

Bark in this pic may give you an idea what wood this is?

 

[robin wood]

Well that is ash and it looks good and clean, it is quite slow grown which makes it less springy, ideal is 6-8 growth rings per inch but that should have made a bow. I am no expert I have only made a dozen or so but it is not easy to get the bend even along the length, if you get one bit a tiny bit thinner then all the bend happens there, then it can snap.

 

[novembeRain]

Well that is ash and it looks good and clean, it is quite slow grown which makes it less springy, ideal is 6-8 growth rings per inch but that should have made a bow. I am no expert I have only made a dozen or so but it is not easy to get the bend even along the length, if you get one bit a tiny bit thinner then all the bend happens there, then it can snap.

That'll do Robin - I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happened :You_Rock_

 

[john scrivy]

Respect to that swedish guy (freddy)

 

[al21]

You might find this useful: http://www.alanesq.com/The-Back-Street-Bowyer.pdf

Possibly aiming at higher draw weights than some here, but it's a good tutorial.

 

[Walks with dogs]

I suspect I've made myself misunderstood. When I talk of warming a bow up I'm not talking about heating it directly. I'm using the term to mean rubbing it with your hands and partially drawing it a few times prior to drawing it fully- thus reducing the chances of it snapping.

Probably teaching you to suck eggs though.

 

[dwardo]

I suspect I've made myself misunderstood. When I talk of warming a bow up I'm not talking about heating it directly. I'm using the term to mean rubbing it with your hands and partially drawing it a few times prior to drawing it fully- thus reducing the chances of it snapping.

Probably teaching you to suck eggs though.

I find its best to let your mate draw the bow first before shooting

 

[moccasintracks]

Try this:

Lay out your bow.

When you get the back to one growth ring.
(sometimes debarking it will get you there, sometime it takes some work.
Cut a piece of cloth the length of the bow but a couple inches wider.

Better yet would be a piece of rawhide from a large dog bone you soaked and unwrapped, but I have had success with silk and even nylon.

Get a box of Knox gelatin if you want a natural hide glue (get unflavored lol)
Or I have used most other glues
Gorilla glue is almost a backing in itself.

make a "tiller board" so you can see how your scraping on the belly of the bow is creating a smooth arc in the bent bow.

by hooking a scale to the bow as you draw / tiller it you can determine when you are bringing it into tiller with the draw length and weight you want.

With a good backing I can mostly get reflex into the bows which helps eliminate string follow in marginal woods.

I have made successful 50# plus bows from cedar wood using a good rawhide backing.

While not as basic as a self bow, it is more forgiving of beginner mistakes, and laminated / backed bows are almost as anchient as self bows.

I am currently attempting to make a "pseudo-mongol" style bow from wood and rawhide backing. The reflex is almost a "C:" shape and I get about 60# with a 25 inch draw length on a 50 inch bow. (This is not a recommended beginner bow.)

For a first time bow go with about 72 or maybe 76 inches and a flat bow.

Watch for hinges where there is too much bend in one spot. As you tiller check often for a perfect symmetrical arc in the draw of the bow.

If your library can get a copy of the bowyers bible for you to study it is of great use.

Also you might check with the website for "Primitive Archer" magazine for help on simple first bows.

If you post specific questions I will try and see the post and give suggestions.

Bow building can be as complex or simple as you wish.

It is sort of like coke can stoves; once you make one, you keep making and improving until you get the one that suits your personal style.

If your first bow isn't that high a draw weight do not toss it. It can serve for back yard roving and perhaps be passed on to a child as a starter.

Also shortening a bow will increase draw weight if you make a good one, but too low a draw wt. can also be raised with a good backing with cloth or leather or sinew or rawhide.

As far as scraping tools while a draw knife and spokeshave are nice I have managed with a pocket knife and a piece of glass (broken to a sharp scraping edge) to make a bow.

I now have better tools, but it just takes perseverance to make a usable bow.

The more you break the better you get at making those that do not break. Keep a notebook of what works and what does not. You will be glad you build your own reference book like that. I prefer a three ring binder so I can print out stuff also and punch it and put it in a place in a tab to locate for reference in the shop.


Mostly I am working at helping my son set up a welding / metal fabrication shop these days. Therefore I am making more blades and such than bows these days, but bow making is one of my passions, and I love to see others get into the game.

Jim

 

[moccasintracks]

I forgot to add to glue the backing to the bow before you tiller.

sorry, on my third vodkatini and it is 2 something AM here.

I will try and answer questions and check here later to see if you have any.

Jim

 

[palmnut]

I'm not winning with bow making, The bigest problem seems to be that I'm not "up to speed" with winter tree i.d'ing.

Anyway, I've tried three times now, once with birch (hopeless) once with something I'm unsure about (smooth blue / grey bark) and yesterday and today with what I think was ash but I'm not sure.

The thing that worries me is that you don't mention allowing the wood to dry at all. Whilst you can make a working bow in green wood it will tend to be fragile, weak and follow the string (if you ever get to pull it

I'd rough it out if I were you and then put it somewhere warm but not hot for a few weeks before trying to tiller it.

Peter.