Bloody power cuts - generator advice please

[Baggy]

couple of power cuts over xmas has set me thinking about buying a generator.

I would like something that would run our fridge freezer, a couple of lights and the kettle and maybe the microwave.

My knowledge of electrickery is that it hides in walls waiting to hurt me... that is where my knowledge stops

Any suggestions for what to look for in a gernerator or even recommendations would be very welcome.

 

[RonW]

Why not look for options that do not require electricity?
Such as candles, woodstove and food in glass jars, canned or dried?

 

[bearbait]

I listed, as you have done, the most important items and checked the power requirements in watts of each. Some electrical items can take 2 or 3 times the rated power requirements to start up. I came up with a Honda ECM 2800 generator. I bought a petrol genny but in hindsight maybe I should have gone for diesel as it's legitimate (or was) to run a generator on red diesel which is much cheaper than petrol.

Here's the tricky bit: how are you going to get the power into the house? I got my local electrician to install a waterproof plug on the outside wall of the house and lead a cable through the wall to a man-size switch by the electricty meter. I then got my electricity company to cut the main power cable on the house side of the meter but before the circuit breaker board, and connect the aforesaid new cable and the main cable into it. (Breaking the cable on the house side of the meter is so you don't pay them for the electricty you generate!) This way when I want to use the gen (which I do occasionally to make sure it still works) you can do so by isolating the house from the mains by flipping the switch. I also had small circuit/light put in the switch box so I could see whether there's a mains supply or not so I know when the power is cut, when it returns without having to flip the switch back and forwards.

Having the house isolated is also useful when there is a power cut and the electricity guys are trying to mend the cable somewhere. They can't do this if your generator is keeping the line live. Maybe your local electricity company will have some guidelines on installing gennies on a website somewhere?

The genny is in an outhouse and when it's needed I run a beefy cable from it to the plug on the outside wall. You get a voltage loss on long cables so you want a meaty one if it's any length - and anyway, you want to max out the power you get having generated it with expensive fuel!

I have heard of people powering the house by plugging the genny into a regular wall plug but I'm not sure of the veracity or safety of this.

 

[Baggy]

Hiya

Why not look for options that do not require electricity?
Such as candles, woodstove and food in glass jars, canned or dried?

We have a lot covered but we have lost two freezer loads of food over xmas, and one powercut was while we had family over from a couple of hours away so light and hot drinks would have been nice.

As we need to keep the freezer going we might as well have light and kettle.

I have heat covered with an open fire and logs, I also have some coking covered with the fire and my camping stove. We do have a load of candles and torches/LED lanterns.

 

[wingstoo]

That could be a big genny because of the kettle, some of those can draw 3kw, so you would need a bigger genny than 3Kw or a smaller kettle.

I have a 1.9Kva diesel genny because the ability to run it on red diesel which is cheaper than the normal DERV fuel.

Look at what you "NEED" rather than what you "WANT" to run when the power is off.

I have a hook up point outside the back door to connect my genny to rather than flying leads, and a switch over to disconnect from the grid.

 

[Baggy]

Hmmm useful TVM

I was just planning to unplug the fridge from the wall and plug it into a lead straight from the gennie or mayby via an UPS.
I can forget the kettle.

What I need is just lights and freezer

 

[wingstoo]

Freezer only needs a bit every now and then, look on the plate on the back to see it's power needs, remember that it needs more at the start than when it is running, a bit of a power spike, lighting needs to be looked at as it isn't a big power user unless you have it like Blackpool illuminations.

Have a look at the DIY 2 stroke ones of about 650-850 watts at B&Q or Machinemart.

Something like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BSsDzIapNk

 

[Rod Paradise]

Might be a daft idea, but would a wind turbine not provide a suitable safety net? I've noticed that most power cuts are when the winds are high.

 

[wingstoo]

For a turbine you would also need deep cycle batteries and pure sinewave inverters to take it from 12v to 240v, also if the winds are too high turbines turn away from the wind.

 

[aris]

As an aside, check out led lighting. It is reasonably priced now, and draws minimal current. I bout some from https://www.ledbrite.co.uk/ and am very happy. The light it produces is much more pleasing than cfl (no flicker).

 

[pastymuncher]

Freezer only needs a bit every now and then, look on the plate on the back to see it's power needs, remember that it needs more at the start than when it is running, a bit of a power spike, lighting needs to be looked at as it isn't a big power user unless you have it like Blackpool illuminations.

Have a look at the DIY 2 stroke ones of about 650-850 watts at B&Q or Machinemart.

Something like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BSsDzIapNk

That might be too small for a fridge/freezer, I had a 500w inverter with a surge capacity of over 600w that would trip out on the start of a small AA rated fridge.
Domestic fridges/freezers are bloody awful power hungry beasts.

And if you're going to hard wire it into your mains, make sure you cant run both supplies at the same time, fit a contactor or changeover switch.

 

[greenwood]

Wouldn't the freezer keep things cold for quite along time? as its all frozen any way 1/2 days?
most applicences take a lot to start and although i have a genny i can boil water on the open fire or gas cooker, use heat from the open fire and have candles and lanterns.

 

[greenwood]

wingstoo like it :You_Rock_

 

[Thetillerman71]

Is a generator really your best bet? why I ask is if the power cuts are for only a limited amount of time then a battery bank and inverter may be another viable option for you. Additionally this can be charged by solar power if you so wished and although noyt a big initial cost would be fairly easy to add too

To connect incoming mains into your home you really need a 17 edition (or part P registered) electrician to connect a changeover switch between the meter tails and your fusebox. Other wise your gonna be powering half the country, or worst if someone's working on a cable down the road your going to potentially electricute them and have a little explaining to do

The fridge if you pack it full should last many hours if your not opening the door, I have approx 8 litres of water in mine as a thermal mass. Alternatively you could look for a 2or 3 way as a back up (perhaps located in the garage) that would run off either 12V DC or gas as they use in a camper van. Alternatively a chest freezer where the cold air has nowhere to go if you open the lid

The kettle and microwave (and even washing machine, tumble dryer, and cooker) Id forget as they are such high power appliances that you'd be looking at a system delivering 2 Kilowatts or more so probably worth forgetting about

Honda do a nice little range of smaller quiet ones i.e. EU10 or 20 or the bigger EU20 suitcase generators that you could also use for camping and are often seen on EBAY, again what your really looking for is something with true sinewave output or half your electronic stuff wont run properly!

Get yourself a cheap energy monitor ideally one that you can plug in rather than the inductive coupling on the incoming mains and then you can spend some time doing an energy survey in your home of what you use and what you need. Around 10 pounds that will save you the heartache of spending a thousand on something that may not be suitable

 

[wingstoo]

wingstoo like it :You_Rock_

Cheers,

I have the battery bank in the shed for lights at the moment, and four solar panels to keep them charged, but the cost of £350 just for panels and batteries is a lot more than a small generator.

Another way to keep the freezer cold for longer is to fill empty gaps with three-quarter full bottles of water, and only open the doors when absolutely necessary.

 

[wingstoo]

Honda do a nice little range of smaller quiet ones i.e. EU10 or 20 or the bigger EU20 suitcase generators that you could also use for camping and are often seen on EBAY,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=20+suitcase+generators&rt=nc

Good if you have a £1000 to spare by the looks of them, my 1.9KvA diesel genny was a third that price

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5KVA-SILE...trial_Tools_Generators_ET&hash=item5889b988e5 good for the whole house and still cheaper than a honda

 

[Nice65]

Having the house isolated is also useful when there is a power cut and the electricity guys are trying to mend the cable somewhere. They can't do this if your generator is keeping the line live.

Well, they can, because they'll pull fuses and use ground earths to box in the section that's faulted. However, I can tell you it's really useful to know that someone may be generating back feed. Whether you can isolate it or not, it's likely that fuses will be pulled.

As far as I can see from your needs, the kettle will require a bit of oomph to work effectively. I'd forget the electric kettle and use a camping gas one.

 

[Andy BB]

It seems to me that your only prime requirement is to keep your freezer frozen - everything else you can make do with alternative sources of heat/light (at least for a non-TEOTWAWKI scenario!). Would it not therefore be more sensible to plan a back-up generator for just that purpose? Having to provide an extra 2-3kw of generation for an electric kettle, for example - seems a bit non-cost-effective!

 

[fozzy]

You can buy 12volt kettles if it's just for brews (what you don't use flask it ) Get yourself some white chrimbo lights and run from 12volts leisure battery or spare car battery . Find out the rating of your freezer and get a slightly larger gene .Your can hire them, ask for a super silent .

 

[santaman2000]

A lot of people here on the Gulf Coast have these hard wired to their homes for emergency use after a hurricane: www.15000wattgenerator.com/tag/generac They're quiet (as they run on either natural gas or propane) and will power your whole house.