blade sharpened with extra bevel

[scarfell]

I took my knife to have a good polish at a well respected knife shop in london, explained what i needed (a nick removed and sharpening up), for some reason they have given it a curve! Only on one side, i didnt notice until i got home

I cant get back there any time soon to get them to do it again properly, any suggestions on how i can get it flat myself?

What would be the best stone to use? Seems like i'll have allot of work to do without a machine

(i have an old diamond stone and 1000 & 4000 whetstones, no idea the grit on the diamond but its very old and not at all rough)


Image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxJOe3KASGeLemJzSm8yanExUkk/view?usp=sharing



If i wasnt left handed it probably wouldnt matter to much, doh.

 

[Janne]

How does it cut, is it sharp?
My suggestion is to disregard the edge and use the knife as it is. When it needes sharpening next time you can rectify the ( unimportant ) problem.

 

[scarfell]

How does it cut, is it sharp?
My suggestion is to disregard the edge and use the knife as it is. When it needes sharpening next time you can rectify the ( unimportant ) problem.

Its sharp, but i dont have the same control as i did when it was very flat/small angle, i cant for eg shave very thin (paper thin) pieces of wood as i could before as the angle is dramatically increased; at least not moving the blade away from me, i can do it with the blade pointing towards me, but thats not really a good way to make such thin cuts


My real question is how to get the angle back and using what stone, seems that rather than reducing the amount of work i would have had taking the nick out myself, its actually increased it :/

 

[Janne]

Determine the correct angle on the "good" side, using a felt pen. Then start to atablish the same angle on the "bad" side, with the diamond stone. You say it feels blunt, maybe it needes a good cleaning only. Soap and water, then oil it in?

 

[scarfell]

It might be clogged up with oil and metal particles, the stone is probably 60 years old (was my grandads), i'll see what some soap does!

 

[mrcharly]

What 'grind' was it when you took the knife into the shop?

Did you hand it over with a scandi/sabre grind or did it already have a secondary bevel?

If it already had a secondary bevel, then I don't think they've done a huge screw up.

If it had a scandi grind and they've added a secondary bevel on one side, I would send a photograph to the shop and phone them with a complaint, that is a major screwup. Changing the grind of a knife is utterly unprofessional and unacceptable.

 

[Ogri the trog]

There may be a few important issues here;

They may well be a "well known name" but until they can listen to customer requirements, they are no better than anyone else.

Secondly - did you describe your requirements adequately and gain reassurance that they fully understood them.

Next comes the question that has already been asked - is it sharp and can you do what you want to do with it - and as you have already replied - it would seem to be sharp, but it is not as controllable as it used to be (could that be a subjective thing).

Now we get to the important stuff (for me at least) if you do not let them know that their service has not resulted in what you expected- they will do the same thing again to someone else and they cannot improve their customer service.

Similarly (and to a lesser extent) if you don't mention who they are, someone else on the forum may well go to the same people for the same thing and end up disappointed - again no opportunity to improve or for the customer to state their requirements more clearly.

Every time you hand a tool to another person, you run the risk of getting it back in a poorer condition than you handed it over - "you pay's yer money and you take your chance!"

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[scarfell]

What 'grind' was it when you took the knife into the shop?

Did you hand it over with a scandi/sabre grind or did it already have a secondary bevel?

If it already had a secondary bevel, then I don't think they've done a huge screw up.

If it had a scandi grind and they've added a secondary bevel on one side, I would send a photograph to the shop and phone them with a complaint, that is a major screwup. Changing the grind of a knife is utterly unprofessional and unacceptable.

No it didnt have a secondary bevel, it was a perfectly flat scandi grind, and i spoke to them about the grind before they started work; unfortunately i dont have time to get back to the shop, but i will be contacting them

I suspect it was down to ignorance, the shop works with high end chef knives, but i contacted them in advance to see if they could work with a flat grind


(i'll post up the company once i've had a response from them, rather than tarnishing them for a mistake they might be able to fix and avoid in future)

 

[mrcharly]

Giving them a chance to rectify the screw-up is a very good attitude.

If you gave them a scandi grind and they put a secondary bevel on it, I regard that as well past 'whoops we didn't understand what the customer wanted' and I'd put it plainly in the area of ignorance. I bet they ran it through a machine (without thinking at all) set up for chef's knives, that probably does a very good job on chef's knives.

 

[homesicksteve]

Perhaps terminology is an issue.
'Flat grind' is not clear.
It could be 'full flat grind' which is not the same as 'zero grind scandi'
A 'full-flat grind' will usually have a secondary bevel...

 

[scarfell]

A scandi grind is a very obvious grind though, sure without seeing the knife it could be misunderstood, but when its in your hands its obvious; the fact that the secondary bevel is only on one side suggests it was accidental rather than a misunderstanding aswell, perhaps muscle memory kicked in while they should have been using their eyes to keep the blade flat

They've promised to fix it when i can bring it in not sure when that will be but i'll post up the result, so wont try and do anything with it myself

 

[homesicksteve]

Perhaps not so obvious -
Many 'Scandi' ground knives have a small micro bevel - i.e. not zero ground.
It's even less obvious to someone used to kitchen knives, rather than specialised wood-working tools...

'hope it all works out for you.

 

[scarfell]

Perhaps not so obvious -
Many 'Scandi' ground knives have a small micro bevel - i.e. not zero ground.
It's even less obvious to someone used to kitchen knives, rather than specialised wood-working tools...

'hope it all works out for you.

Never come across that, perhaps because most popular knives are based on the woodlore and i've never worked with a "traditional" blade; i'm sure it'll be fine, they got one side of the blade perfect lol

 

[shindig]

Most sharpening shops use mechanical sharpening [wet wheel as opposed to whetstones] and usually put a secondary bevel on a skandi grind as it almost impossible to to a Scandi grind on one of the wet wheels. However they usually advise on this beforehand.

Edit. I'll add that doing a Scandi grind on a wet wheel can SEVERLY scratch much of the grind and that's why most sharpening shops don't offer this. Chef's knives are easier to keep pretty and I'm sure they do a good job normally.

I'd take them up on their offer to fix it, as they may do it by hand . Do they accept knives in the mail ? This would save you another trip.

 

[scarfell]

Most sharpening shops use mechanical sharpening [wet wheel as opposed to whetstones] and usually put a secondary bevel on a skandi grind as it almost impossible to to a Scandi grind on one of the wet wheels. However they usually advise on this beforehand.

Edit. I'll add that doing a Scandi grind on a wet wheel can SEVERLY scratch much of the grind and that's why most sharpening shops don't offer this. Chef's knives are easier to keep pretty and I'm sure they do a good job normally.

I'd take them up on their offer to fix it, as they may do it by hand . Do they accept knives in the mail ? This would save you another trip.

Interesting, they did use a wheel, and then whetstones, then polishing wheel

I'll have to discuss this with them further, at no point did they say they couldnt keep it flat; so they will have to do it by hand? or is there a way to do it mechanically? Assuming they have the right skills(they said they did initially) or tools

They do offer post but that'll cost the same as a trip into london anyway with signed for and insurance

 

[shindig]

Interesting, they did use a wheel, and then whetstones, then polishing wheel

I'll have to discuss this with them further, at no point did they say they couldnt keep it flat; so they will have to do it by hand? or is there a way to do it mechanically? Assuming they have the right skills(they said they did initially) or tools

They do offer post but that'll cost the same as a trip into london anyway with signed for and insurance

I think only way to sharpen a scandi without blemishing a large are of the grind is to use whetstones. I would ask them to put it back to a scandi grind with whatever method they are skilled and comfortabe to do so. I'd also suggest to them that they pay the postage both ways as a goodwill gesture. Most sharpening houses I know of rely on reputation, and I'm sure they will be more that happy to oblige. However, it might be best to speak to them face to face.

 

[Dave Budd]

i would take it back to the shop and get them t fix the damage that they have done. Simple as that really.

 

[Stew]

Interesting, they did use a wheel, and then whetstones, then polishing wheel

I'll have to discuss this with them further, at no point did they say they couldnt keep it flat; so they will have to do it by hand? or is there a way to do it mechanically? Assuming they have the right skills(they said they did initially) or tools

They do offer post but that'll cost the same as a trip into london anyway with signed for and insurance

I'm sure that they will be the ones to cover the cost of postage to rectify the fault.

 

[scarfell]

Yeah they possibly would, but i'd rather be there and make sure its done properly, heading out into the hills in a few weeks and dont want to be messing about sorting this for a third time lol

 

[Shelley]

This is certainly not your fault, but it's a good reminder to learn to sharpen things ourselves, scandi grind is one of the easiest grinds to sharpen (after all it's one of the reason that Mr Mears had the Woodlore made for him).
A DC4 is pretty chap and a good place to start.