Black knife scales - ebony or micarta?

[Nomad]

Which is better for black knife scales - ebony or micarta? This is for a woodlore style knife that I'm considering buying, and I have a choice of material for the scales. My heart says ebony, but I don't know how it compares to micarta, or other materials. I don't know much about this, but it strikes me that the main things to consider are adhesion to glue, water resistance, and grip when dry and wet. Is there anything else to consider?

Also, what about the bolts and lanyard tube? Heart says brass, and head says stainless steel, but head also says that stainless is harder to work and get a finish that's nicely faired with the scales. What is the best type of bolt?

 

[WULF]

Both are suitable if the correct glue is used,i use epoxy 2 part. although i think micarta would give better grip.....this will also depend on how far you sand either of them and what finish you personally like,i'd go stainless corby bolts but thats just my preference.

 

[HillBill]

Ebony is wood, micarta is synthetic.

One is suspect to slight shrinkage and expansion (but only VERY slight as ebony is dense and hard) the other isnt.

Is the knife carbon steel or stainless? If carbon, go ebony and brass pins as they will all age nicely together. If stainless, go micarta and stainless pins. Not too difficult really.

Both will bond well to the glue, grip depends how smooth you sand the handle. Both can be made grippy or slippy

Just use pins (plain bar) rather than bolts. Bolts look horrid imo. Look at mosaics too if your wanting fancy.

 

[dazcon]

If it's going to see a lot of use then i'd go micarta and stainless. If its going to be a drawer queen then ebony and mosaic pins.

 

[Nomad]

It's 01 tool steel.

Don't corby bolts look like a pin once they've been trimmed down? I think loveless has a threaded part going all the way through, but corby presents a single, solid cylinder to the outside.

I see G10 mentioned here and there - synthetic, yes?

 

[Nomad]

I see G10 mentioned here and there - synthetic, yes?

Ah - FR4, but not flame retardant.

 

[Nomad]

For reference, I'm looking at something from Will Adams of Bushblade...

http://www.bushblade.co.uk/

It has a tapered tang (from 4mm to 2mm). A page there (handle construction) also shows the blades before heat treatment, and it looks like the tangs are hollow ground and with some largish holes added (although I'm not sure if this is done on the tapered tang types, or only on those with a constant thickness).

It won't be a drawer queen. It might not be used every weekend, but it is very much a tool. My expected usage will be general cutting, prep of tinder and kindling, light batoning, carving, and some light chopping and lopping to clean up smallish branches. Not planning to skin or butcher anything. Not especially intent on using it with a fire steel. If I do any prying, it will be light only.

The two things that attracted me to this were the maker's apparent attention to detail and standard of workmanship (see the vid on the Woodlore Clone page), and the lightening of the tang to bring the centre of mass forward (some modelling in 3D CAD suggests it will be somewhere around the ricasso, maybe a few mm further into the blade).

I'm assuming that the tapered/lightened tang isn't a risk in terms of weakness in normal use - it will be weaker, but I'd have thought it would need some abuse to actually damage it. That said, opinions from those with more experience would be appreciated.

 

[dazcon]

Sounds like it will easily fit the bill for your specific needs. The main difference between wood and synthetic handle materials will be in the long term. Wood being a natural material may shrink/warp/crack over time and need a little more maintanance(unless it is stabilised). Sounds like it's just going to come down to your own personal tastes and views. Obviously natural materials are more traditional and will appeal more to the purist.

 

[Nomad]

Ebony and brass certainly has an appeal that I can't deny. On the other hand, something that is ultra stable long term (like micarta and stainless) also appeals. I guess it's a question of how stable ebony and brass are likely to be, given reasonable care. Since the blade isn't stainless (and since the knife isn't exactly cheap), I suspect that I'll be mindful of not storing it in damp conditions.

I didn't mention that I expect to mostly be out for a day or weekend in the temperate UK - not planning on weeks in the jungle or anything. Anything longer than a weekend in the UK is likely to be interspersed with time spent in a Land Rover, or maybe even a B&B. (Thinking of holiday tours round Scotland, centred on a mix of bushcraft and landscape phtography.)

What is involved with stabilising wood, and does ebony need it?

 

[dazcon]

What is involved with stabilising wood, and does ebony need it?

Stabilising needs to be professionally done. It involves the wood being pressure impregnated with epoxy resin. I'm not sure how well ebony will stand up to long term exposure to the British climate and changes in humidity. It can be soaked in Danish oil to seal it, but as i said, natural materials will need a little more maintanance in the long run. You could always go plastic all the way and take all the worry out of ownership, but it just don't have as much soul!!

 

[Nomad]

Makes me wonder how all the other wooden knife handles fair. Are they all stabilised as a matter of course? (I'll look into stabilised ebony...)

 

[FGYT]

Wood and micarta will move a little and micarta still can absorb water at the surface tho Wills look oiled (nice finish) G10 is the only material ive fount that does not move at all its a fiberglass with resin (micarta is cloth with resin) G10 gives a Shiny polished finish better tho less texture than Micarta unless sand blasted (which makes Micarta furry nice grip but retains surface moisture)

Taper tang wont make any real difference to strength and hollow grinding is to remove more weight and speed up the flat grinding to taper it n also be sued to reduce weight in a paralell tang .
4mm Scandi blades are heavy as they have a lot of metal in them and the grind dosnt remove much front weight Synthetic Materials and stabilized woods are heavy so can pull the Center of balance right
back . If im trying to move the COB fwd s I use a light unstabilized wood like Walnut and accept the movement or you go Stick tang


Like others i dont like the look of Loveless bolts the exposed thread looks unfinished to me and a potential dirt trap (tho most are filled with glue) Corby bolts give the same bolting result with a clean finish

tho mostly I use straight pins (but i use more than normal ) which i've never had a problem with and seen some 2 bolt scales crack off to the first pin (most are to far back )

 

[Nomad]

Just a thought...

Has anyone made a micarta type composite using carbon fibre tape and marine epoxy resin?

Any reason not to? (Disregarding cost.)

 

[WULF]

I ve made home made micarta with fibregalss resin,,hesian and denim.

Just a thought...

Has anyone made a micarta type composite using carbon fibre tape and marine epoxy resin?

Any reason not to? (Disregarding cost.)

 

[Nomad]

I gather that's what most micarta is made from, but I'm wondering about using carbon fibre and marine epoxy in particular. I would have thought that carbon and epoxy would be exceedingly stable and have very, very low water absorption. I can't think of anything more bomb proof, short of going to an engineering plastic like PEEK Black (very expensive unless a small bit of the right size can be sourced).

 

[WULF]

i would imagine thats the case,i would say though that bought carbon fibre scales or micarta has much more pressure applied during process...having said that i dont have any pictures of the stuff i made but looked very nice on a srm 710.

I gather that's what most micarta is made from, but I'm wondering about using carbon fibre and marine epoxy in particular. I would have thought that carbon and epoxy would be exceedingly stable and have very, very low water absorption. I can't think of anything more bomb proof, short of going to an engineering plastic like PEEK Black (very expensive unless a small bit of the right size can be sourced).

 

[Nomad]

I'm thinking of sandwiching it between two layers of 20mm thick acetal plastic (POM), using multiple G-clamps. Extremely tough, non-bendy, and resistant to compression. (Also cheap and there happens to be a good lump of it lying around at work that doesn't get used.)

The plan is to use slow hardener to give plenty of time to get each layer well wetted (about 30 minutes working time, 12 hours to solid, 7 days to full cure).

 

[WULF]

If your talking acetate sheet its no good,i tried some as scales on a knife and it was terrible to work/machine and didn't look good at all.

Theres some tutorials on the web for 'homemade scales',i'll go find it......EDIT,here you go.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-homemade-micarta/

 

[Nomad]

No, acetal (normally called POM, or Delrin in DuPont-speak)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene

It's an engineering plastic that is very tough and rigid, and the use is for compression plates for the carbon/epoxy composite rather than the actual scales. I wouldn't use it for knife scales - it has a relatively low melting point (160-175°), and I'm not sure it could withstand being shaped on a belt sander (although I've never tried). It has to be machined with care to avoid localised melting at the cutter. The machined surface is also quite slippery.