Birch or alder?

[Lucyc]

I was out searching for some birch today so when the time comes I can get some sap, and I spotted this:

There should be three photos there, for me it sometimes comes up with 2 for some reason!

More here:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3716/dscn0355tu9.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7528/dscn0351jv0.jpg
And in case you're unable to see the others:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4263/dscn0350tw7.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2507/dscn0352dk2.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/106/dscn0356ih2.jpg


I think it must be either birch or alder because of the catkins, and I've tried to identify it on a website but it could be either.. I'm leaning toward alder because the branches split off very low and continue on upwards, and the ark (although covered in ivy so it's hard to tell) seems to be rougher than birch.. I was hoping someone could just tell me either way!

Also, if it's alder, what are its uses? Is it good for bow drills, etc?

Thanks, Lucy

 

[Greg]

I would say alder it was alder but I'm no expert!

 

[British Red]

Lucy,

I, struggling a bit with the tip picture, but its all in the leaf and the bark. Now the top picture clearly has Ivy leaves in the background. What's harder to tell is if the foreground leaves are coming from. If they belong to the tree, Alder beyond doubt. Birch leaves are spear shaped, alder much rounder. The catkins also look alder like to me - birch ones are finer

I'll publish photos of alder leaves and catkins in a minute to assist you (just have to upload them)

red

 

[British Red]

Okay Lucy here we go

Alder Leaf

Alder showing emerging "stubby" catkins

Now birch leaves are almost heart shaped and glossy - very different.

I don't know if that helps you?

Red

 

[Elendeor]

Im pretty sure that its not birch, dont know any alder though so dont know if its that.

 

[robin wood]

Hard to be sure with these photos, possibly alder but there should be little cones on it still this time of year and there are not, buds tend to be fat rounded and sort of purple ish with a bloom where these are tight pointy and dark, catkins also stripy when they open and these don't look like they will be. I would have said hazel, the bark does not look quite right but catkins and buds do so its still my best guess..

 

[British Red]

Definitively not Birch now I think about it - the female cakins are upright and its too soon for male (actually to soon for any). Could be hazel (I think even the foreground leaves are something else than the tree), but I favout alder
Red

 

[SOAR]

Looks like Alder to me from the catkins.

 

[Lucyc]

Shame it's not birch - I want sap!

Hazel you say? I never even considered that.. So it looks like a close run thing between hazel and alder. Next time I can get out I'll take a look around for any of the cones, I didn't see any last time, but then the sillhouette of the picture of the branch looks like it has one at the end? I'm not sure - I'll take a look. Is there anything I should look out for in case it's hazel? I just read that both tend to split at the base - not helpful!

What are the uses of both? Could either be used for bow drills, spindle and hearth?

Thanks, Lucy

Edit: Ah and yes, I think all of the leaves on the tree are ivy - sorry about that!

 

[Jodie]

The birch catkins near me look a lot slimmer than that and the picture I have of alder
catkins is a bit more similar but I don't know what else might have catkins that it might
be more like...

This has been my twig bible this week -
http://www.hainaultforest.co.uk/3Winter twigs.htm

Unfortunately neither the birch twig nor hazel shown have catkins.

I don't really know enough about trees yet to suggest what else to investigate but if you
have any suspected limes you're not sure about, I'm your woman as I've been spotting
them all over the place

 

[Mirius]

My first thought was Alder, but looking again, some of the catkins seem too long, so I'm leaning towards Hazel on the theory that the catkins you've got on your laptop photo are just immature ones.

 

[robin wood]

had a look at some alders and hazels on the way to the workshop today and identification is not easy if you only look at a small part. Anyway I took some photos to show the sort of typical variation.
First a typical alder twig with the purple buds with a bloom that are very characteristic...I can normally spot an alder 200 yards away at this time of year due to the purple hue the buds give it.

and here is a twig with catkins.

here is a typical hazel twig with catkins

and the hazel twig alongside an alder

So far I am thinking Lucy's tree is hazel but then I found some more alder like this, note the male catkins and the tiny female flowers that look like little buds.

and this, now where are those big purple buds?

anyway I think the answer is we can't be sure what Lucy's tree is but the one way to be sure is on the next visit look for "cones" (we should call them fruits really) if they are there it is alder (they stay on all year) if not its hazel.

 

[Mirius]

Thats very interesting Robin. Do Alder have both male and female trees? I'm thinking if it's a male alder then it might not have cones.

 

[robin wood]

Nope all alder trees bear both male (catkins) and female flowers which eventually turn into the fruiting bodies (cones)

 

[Risclean]

Alder buds are always on stalks, at least A. glutinosa the British native. This shows in the alder photos posted. There are several other non-native species of alder that you might come across; grey alder, Italian alder, red alder, green alder and sitka alder. I'm not familiar with these species myself, but they might confuse an ID.

Hazel buds are round and greeny brown coloured.

 

[Lucyc]

Wow, thanks everyone for the replies - those pictures are great! From them, I'm really leaning towards hazel, as the bark on the twigs is pretty much identical. All the same on saturday I will go down to check for any cones.
I found some birch trees today but they're at school, and I'm thinking the groundsmen wouldn't be too pleased if I started draining all the sap from them! I was trying to find one right beside a hedge where I could sneakily do it!
I'll update this once I've gone to check the tree again, possibly with some extra pictures. Thanks again!

 

[Lucyc]

Just an update- it's definitely hazel - I went back and looked, and I found some small starters of hazelnuts I think, and the buds are green and rounded, the bark the right colour, and there are catkins which are the right colour and length (although only a couple) - thanks for your help everyone!