binocular help

[gorilla]

morning everyone!
in an effort to finish the crimbo shopping early, the father in law has said he'd like binos to look at the ships coming in on the Mersey.
brand is unimportant, price as cheap as poss - ebay for 2nd hand would be fine.
my main prob is that i do not understand the magnification numbers (eg 10 x 25 etc)
if someone could explain them to me i would be very grateful - then hopefully i can find a pair online somewhere - links also appreciated, even if someone has a pair they don't need anymore - all good
many thanks in advance
gorilla

 

[Beer Monster]

The first figure indicates the degree of magnification and the second, the diameter of the objective lenses, in millimetres. For most purposes, magnifications of between 6.5 x and 10 x will be most satisfactory. As magnification increases, the size of what you look at will appear larger, but any slight hand movements will also be exaggerated so that you may not be able to keep the binocular steady enough also, focusing will need to be more precise and the field of view may become narrower. The diameter of the objective lenses will control how much light the binocular can collect. In bright conditions the lens size will not be too important, but larger lenses will be able to maintain the brightness of the image even in poor lighting. Usually the greater the number of times that the magnification can be divided into the objective lens diameter, the brighter the image will be

Link.

Hope that helps. Warehouse Express is a good place to start looking, Nikons are a good cheap (.... well some of them!) make.

 

[Burnt Ash]

morning everyone!
in an effort to finish the crimbo shopping early, the father in law has said he'd like binos to look at the ships coming in on the Mersey.
brand is unimportant, price as cheap as poss - ebay for 2nd hand would be fine.
my main prob is that i do not understand the magnification numbers (eg 10 x 25 etc)
if someone could explain them to me i would be very grateful - then hopefully i can find a pair online somewhere - links also appreciated, even if someone has a pair they don't need anymore - all good
many thanks in advance
gorilla

Good quality optics are a real and continuing joy. You tend to get what you pay for, but there are some that offer excellent 'bang for the buck'. Some of the cheaper models from Opticron have seemed pretty good when I've tried them.
An older person will probably get on much better with lower magnification, e.g., 7x, as the perceived image doesn't shake about so much compared with higher magnifications, unless the bins are supported.
I'd be reluctant to buy optical equipment secondhand (eBay, etc.) unless you know what you're about, or can be advised by someone who is knowledgeable.

Burnt Ash

 

[Ben_Hillwalker]

I second everything posted so far, especially the warning that you get what you pay for.

The only thing I would add is that, rather than buying on line, you try them out and then buy one. Firstly, this gives you a good idea of weight, and weight is an important issue if bins are going to be used a lot. Holding them up to your eyes for any length of time is suprisingly tiring. Secondly, I would be unhappy about getting binoculars through the post as rough handling may damage the lenses or knock prisms out of alignment.

Anyway, that's my ha'penny's worth.

 

[albertw]

An older person will probably get on much better with lower magnification, e.g., 7x, as the perceived image doesn't shake about so much compared with higher magnifications, unless the bins are supported.

Another, but more costly option, would be to look at image stabilising binoculars. They are far more tolerant to a bit of hand shaking. I thought these were a bit of a gimmick until I tried them at an astronomy event last year - they are great!

If you have an astronomy or birdwatching club near you they may be able to let you try out the different sizes etc.

 

[SOAR]

Echo what everyone else has said really, try Jessops they tend to stock a variety of brands and prices, I got a little pair from there and although they aren't brilliant they are ok fpr dropping in a side pocket of a bag, for £8 they can be easily replaced. I also have a pair that my Mum got me from the states Redhead they were alot more expensive, the difference in quality between the two is massive.

 

[gorilla]

thanks to everyone for the info and links
Soar - jessops look good, and there's one in liverpool, so i'll pop over at the weekend

 

[Barn Owl]

thanks to everyone for the info and links
Soar - jessops look good, and there's one in liverpool, so i'll pop over at the weekend

Try them all i'm sure you'll know Dads' needs.
Be mindful that some assistants can quote the stat's of products but know nothing of their practicalities.
Birdforum.net has an extensive optics area covering a lot of makes and models with various individual opinions(not all expensive ones) btw.
Tom.

 

[SOAR]

Barn Owl's right Birdforums reviews are well worth reading if you get stuck and can't make up your mind.

 

[swyn]

Try this company. They have a good range of bins and telescopes.

www.monkoptics.co.uk The Dowling & Rowe are a good price and they have the same prisms fitted as the brilliant Monk Argonaut 3.

My personal favorite are 7x50. These are big steady and reliable. As someone else has said 'you get what you pay for'.

Hope this helps.
Swyn.

 

[Doc]

A few thoughts:

If the ships are over, say, 500m away, a spotting scope and trpod would be better. The Russian Turist 3 20x50 draw telescope (ebay £15-£20) is optically excellent, but would need either a tripod, or to be braced against a window edge.

Naval binoculars are traditionally 7x50, the low mag is better when standing on a moving platform. But if he can hold it steady, 8 or 10x would show more detail.

For the same money, porro prism binos will have better quality than roof prisms. Porros are less weatherproof. Probably not an issue.

If you can afford it I would buy full size binos not compact. That is, something with an objective lens of 30mm to 50mm, rather than cheap 8x20 or 10x25.

Just as an idea for a future present, with a radio receiver covering VHF marine band (£20-£100) he can hear the ships as well as watch them. Or, if he connects it to a PC, he can plot their positions on screen! http://www.coaa.co.uk/shipplotter.htm

 

[gorilla]

i had the same thoughts about compacts - i am watching a pair of swift 12 x 50, and tasco basix 10 x 50 full size on the bay, probably poor makes, but they are local to avoid the trauma of posting.
he isn't one for sipping tea on the couch, so when him and the MIL visit, he pops down to the prom and looks over to liverpool and watches the river - these will be kept in the boot for just such occasions, so cheap and cheerful is the route - he wouldn't thank us for a £100 pair anyway!

 

[Doc]

I hesitate to suggest cheap binoculars but another option is 7 day shop: they sell brand new Tasco Sonoma 8x30, 7x35 and 7x50 for £12, £10 and £15 respectively. No VAT as they are based in the Channel Islands. Post is another £4. I'd guess there is some kind of guarantee. https://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/default.php?cat=8&type=8010&man=0&filterwords=&go=SEARCH&comp=

They will be Chinese made. They are porroprism so bigger but better than equivalent priced roofs. The onsite reviews are reasonably favourable but there is some colour shift.

I am sure they will better than cheap 8x20 roofs, but a long way short of used 8x30 Zeiss Jena porros that can be had used on ebay for £30-£45 delivered. The trouble with the latter is that many are out of collimation, or have been ineptly cleaned. I bought a pair recently and they are very good, but i spent quite some time waiting for the right pair.

 

[Burnt Ash]

A few thoughts:

If the ships are over, say, 500m away, a spotting scope and trpod would be better. The Russian Turist 3 20x50 draw telescope (ebay £15-£20) is optically excellent, but would need either a tripod, or to be braced against a window edge.

Naval binoculars are traditionally 7x50, the low mag is better when standing on a moving platform. But if he can hold it steady, 8 or 10x would show more detail.

For the same money, porro prism binos will have better quality than roof prisms. Porros are less weatherproof. Probably not an issue.

If you can afford it I would buy full size binos not compact. That is, something with an objective lens of 30mm to 50mm, rather than cheap 8x20 or 10x25.

Just as an idea for a future present, with a radio receiver covering VHF marine band (£20-£100) he can hear the ships as well as watch them. Or, if he connects it to a PC, he can plot their positions on screen! http://www.coaa.co.uk/shipplotter.htm

With the greatest respect, Doc, I have to say that I find compact binoculars hugely useful, if for no other reason than that they tend not to be left at home when you want to use them. I love my Swarovski 8 x 30. It's in compact binoculars that optical quality seems to make a real difference.
I was out shooting with my club at Lydd ranges today. I borrowed a friend's pair of Leica BGA 8 x 20. We were shooting towards a low winter morning sun and you could see the turbulence trails and the trajectories of the rounds, like little golden sparks. You could call a hit even before the targets fell. Amazing! What fabulous little bins those Leicas are. I am really impressed by how well they hold up even when light levels drop. When folded, they're barely larger than a packet of fags. Definitely, high up on my wish list.

Burnt Ash

 

[Doc]

Sure, you are right - the 8x20 roof prisms by Leica or Swarovski are very sharp and for their size are very effective. They have high quality multi layer coatings on all glass surfaces that increase light transmission. I know a professional stalker/keeper who carries the Leica 8x20 often. I have also seen them used for stalking red deer (which is normally undertaken in full daylight in open country) but they would not be the instrument of choice at dusk for roe (though, as you say, better than you might think).

Gorilla's query was for something fairly low priced ('as cheap as poss') and I felt that the widely available £5 to £10 Chinese 8x20 roof prisms would not be a good choice. The lens coatings are poor and this reduces brightness due to light reflecting off air/glass boundaries. You might tolerate this loss of brightness in a 8x40 but not in a 8x20. Also the field of view and build quality are often very poor and I have seen them miscollimated straight from the box.

The most popular choice for birding these days seems to be 8x40 or 8x42. However, a pair of quality 8x30 will show you all the detail available nearly all the time. My own binoculars are Zeiss FL 8x42s - I am often out at dusk or dawn after roe or wildfowl. If I only wanted daytime use I would have saved some money and weight and bought the same model in 8x30.

I would like to get a pair of Leica ultravid 8x20s too, for those times when full size binos are a burden. If it weren't for the small matter of the £330 price tag...

 

[Bernie Garland]

hi below is a link for binos i purchased a pair and can't recomend enough, you can phone him and he'll advise you the best pair

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Strathspey-10...ryZ10955QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

hope it helps
bernie

 

[Treeclipper]

Hi , I'll stick my 2p's worth in,
I've been an amateur astronomer for a few years & the bino's alot of us use for spotting and swear by are meade/bresser 10x50 fully coated bak4 prisms long eye relief and wide angle binoculars, now these are very cheep for a good quality Bino, lol , Lidl sell them for about £8.50 every now and again but they can be had of eBay for a tenner.

I use mine for wildlife during the day & spotting at night before using the big scope. These are very good for the price & I've never heard a complaint about them. Might be worth a go.

Tree

 

[Kepis]

Try http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Binoculars_23.html

The Bressers at the top of the page are good, i bought a pair cheap £9.99 to be exact and they knock my £200.00 Bushnells into a cocked hat.

No affiliation to Telescope House blah de blah

 

[GreenmanBushcraft]

Link.

Hope that helps. Warehouse Express is a good place to start looking, Nikons are a good cheap (.... well some of them!) make.

I can't say I have read all of this section so you may have made your purchase. I would go for Opticron for value for money. I would stay away from Bushnell as they are well over priced.

If you ever find yourself down South I don't mind showing you a few different brands and letting you test them out. I do some work with bins and scopes (non profit) so im always happy to take people out and let them test different ones and explain whats what.

All the best
Kris

 

[gorilla]

i'd like to sincerely thank everyone for their help and advice - it made for interesting reading, and gave me alot of food for thought!
in the end i followed doc's link for 7dayshop and bought a pair of Tasco Binoculars - Rubber Armoured 8x30 Binoculars (Sonoma).
i know alot of you(including Doc) gave recommendations for far better bins, but i'm sure the dad-in-law will be more than pleased with these.
i may well follow some of the other advice for myself in the new year and get myself a pair!
once again, many thanks to everyone for your help