Best Sea Foraging spots in Scotland

[Robson Valley]

I'll not go against the law. You have a nasty invasive introduced predatory species.
The government of Scotland is telling me that no, I can't have a license to catch and kill them.
Even if I did and could be criminally charged for it, it's illegal to eat the introduced vermin?

I can understand the carnivory but that's hardly a good reason.
That is precisely why I suggested sustained yield and crop the buggers off.

You gotta watch the Americans crop off the crays from flooded rice fields.
Nobody messes about = you buy crays in 50lb sacks.
I'd really hope that you all might reach some equilibrium with your environment with tricks like this.
You got em. No dispute. Use them.

We got Bullfrogs and restaurant snails.
Do you dangdest to catch and kill off all you can. Garlic is $6/lb. Bon appetit

 

[Adze]

In England and Wales, not sure about Scotland as each of the governments seem hellbent on outdoing the other to see who can be most different when it comes to the details, you only need a licence to trap, not to catch. There are some fixed definitions about what constitutes a 'fixed engine' the legal definition of a trap and using anything which falls within that definition is a trap and needs a licence. Other methods of catching are perfectly legal where you have permission to take signal crays from the owner of the land or fishing rights for the water you're taking them from. I've caught and eaten loads of them using a stone, a dead fish and a landing net and a stick - you tie the fish to the stone (puncture the swim bladder or it'll float) to stop the bigger crays dragging it off and as they approach you put the net in behind them and the stick in front... they take off backwards like a lobster tucking their tail under their body when prodded with the stick and straight into the net.

The penalties for getting it wrong and disturbing (that means in pretty much any way without a licence for scientific purposes) the native crayfish Austropotamobius pallipes are pretty huge. Rightly so, they share an ecological status with the Siberian tiger for a reason and are critically endangered. Avoiding areas where there are natives is essential to avoid a court appearance and pretty large fine, not to mention the environmental damage you'd cause.

Sadly and in no small way due to certain pseudo-celebrity 'enviro-activists' antics chasing pie in the sky ideas like reintroducing lynx and wolves to the UK to control deer numbers, which are already controlled perfectly well by the deer society, funding and general public interest in saving the last remaining populations of native crayfish is low to non-existent. Even 'saving' red squirrels and starlings get a much higher billing - both of which have an IUCN rating of least concern but which have in the past been limited in numbers in the UK. But then they're not aquatic and are fluffy and 'characterful'.

 

[Adze]

Another thing... if you catch them, you're legally obliged to kill them. No attacks of remorse, no returning the little ones like you're obliged to with undersized fish. Same goes for grey squirrels funnily enough.

 

[Toddy]

I had a visit from a couple of the local countryside rangers. The crayfish are an incredible problem here. Some numpty thought they'd be a good idea and brought them into England to give a second crop after they'd cleaned up dead trout at the bottom of the fish farm cages, and then some got out.
Then in 1990 another eejit put some berried females into a duck pond up at Crooked Stone, from where they duly trotted their wee selves into the Clyde burn…..the one that takes in all the others and becomes the River Clyde.
To say it's an ecological disaster is an understatement. They decimate the life of the riverbanks, lochs and the like. They bring disease that is likely to totally wipe out the native European crayfish in England, and they devour the eggs and fry of most of the local fish, and graze and guzzle the local plant life along the river bank too.
The only saving grace is that where you find otters, they take out crayfish….so encourage the otter, folks
Except that the otter will preferentially take decent sized fish….and that royally cheeses off the fishermen….
http://www.thepredationactiongroup.co.uk/crayfish.html

Those who fish for and who take out the large crayfish in effect encourage the survival of thousands of little ones, because the big ones are cannibalistic and will happily devour the wee ones…..so instead a river ends up flooded with a growing population of the blasted things that devour all the larvae, etc.,

Harvest them ? do you have any idea of just how many burns and rivers, lochans and lochs, we have in this country ? and we really don't want the crayfish, but only changing the ph of the river courses seems to be totally effective, and that's not going to be cheap or easy…..and see the comment about the little ones….hundreds of millions of them guzzling their way to maturity.

I haven't sussed out the how and why of the licences. I do know that the upper clyde anglers do have traps set, and that members regularly go and empty them and destroy the crayfish. Maybe they're the folks to ask ?

I remembered, and have found a link, a really good paper on the problem of the crayfish, from years ago. Apparantly changing the ph at the crucial moult season, as the river is inclined to do anyway with lower water levels, can kill the blighters.

http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/publications/commissioned_reports/F00LI12.pdf
Worth a read, though I admit more of interest if you're local.

M

 

[Night Phoenix]

Thanks for the links Toddy. They are a massive problem where I am too, myself and local fisherfolk have noticed a change in the fish too that seemed almost instantaneous with the crayfish moving into the area.
The otter poop is full of bits of crayfish though so at least they are happy about it

 

[Adze]

Those who fish for and who take out the large crayfish in effect encourage the survival of thousands of little ones, because the big ones are cannibalistic and will happily devour the wee ones…..so instead a river ends up flooded with a growing population of the blasted things that devour all the larvae, etc.,

Yes they're cannibalistic, although species agnostic opportunistic would probably be a more accurate description - they don't care what they eat, anything and everything. If it's not able to get away then it is devoured. The vast majority of their diet is plant based and their cannibalistic relations with their younger siblings and offspring is much overplayed. It is only truly significant when they've eaten their way through pretty much everything else edible.

...but only changing the ph of the river courses seems to be totally effective, and that's not going to be cheap or easy…..and see the comment about the little ones….hundreds of millions of them guzzling their way to maturity.

Even attempts at complete sterilization then restocking of the water course are rarely 100% successful, you don't need to miss many for a breeding population to be left behind and they're pretty tough, surviving out of water for some time and capable of moving overland some considerable distance. It also presents no effective barrier to recolonization from nearby water courses which haven't been similarly treated. Ignoring the enormous environmental damage required to achieve this, in places like Scotland where there is so much water, it's just not practicable simply in terms of scale. Once they're in a water system then it is effectively doomed one way or another, I would question whether it makes any difference whether it is this year or next. Might as well eat them as not, the net effect will be the same.

 

[DeBrus]

I'll not go against the law. You have a nasty invasive introduced predatory species.
The government of Scotland is telling me that no, I can't have a license to catch and kill them.
Even if I did and could be criminally charged for it, it's illegal to eat the introduced vermin?

I can understand the carnivory but that's hardly a good reason.
That is precisely why I suggested sustained yield and crop the buggers off.

You gotta watch the Americans crop off the crays from flooded rice fields.
Nobody messes about = you buy crays in 50lb sacks.
I'd really hope that you all might reach some equilibrium with your environment with tricks like this.
You got em. No dispute. Use them.

We got Bullfrogs and restaurant snails.
Do you dangdest to catch and kill off all you can. Garlic is $6/lb. Bon appetit

I just got a wee bit more information from contacting a local angling club. So first of it is completely illegal to catch crayfish no matter what, you just can't. If you find them then it's adviced to kill it and then throw it in a river, then call someone to report an infestation. For fishing as a whole in Scotland, no license is required. All you need is a permit from your local fishing shop or angling club. The angling club I was talking to directed me to an even more local shop that sells permits to fish in the whole of my town (Even though it's not the best place to fish).

Hopefully there's something else worth while catching if I end up willing to spend £60 on a permit...

 

[Adze]

I just got a wee bit more information from contacting a local angling club. So first of it is completely illegal to catch crayfish no matter what, you just can't. If you find them then it's adviced to kill it and then throw it in a river, then call someone to report an infestation. For fishing as a whole in Scotland, no license is required. All you need is a permit from your local fishing shop or angling club. The angling club I was talking to directed me to an even more local shop that sells permits to fish in the whole of my town (Even though it's not the best place to fish).

Hopefully there's something else worth while catching if I end up willing to spend £60 on a permit...

I would question that advice re permits and definitely DO NOT throw crayfish corpses into a water course. Larval crayfish stay with the female some some considerable time and hoofing a dead one back into the water frees the larvae to carry on. Killing them by dropping them into boiling water, if you have the means to, also kills any larvae or eggs. I say again, DO NOT put them into water, it might not be where they came from, it may be where they were going to.

As far as I am aware tidal water in Scotland is the same as tidal water in the rest of the UK - free to fish without a permit. Are there any Scottish anglers who can confirm or disprove that here?

 

[DeBrus]

I would question that advice re permits and definitely DO NOT throw crayfish corpses into a water course. Larval crayfish stay with the female some some considerable time and hoofing a dead one back into the water frees the larvae to carry on. Killing them by dropping them into boiling water, if you have the means to, also kills any larvae or eggs. I say again, DO NOT put them into water, it might not be where they came from, it may be where they were going to.

As far as I am aware tidal water in Scotland is the same as tidal water in the rest of the UK - free to fish without a permit. Are there any Scottish anglers who can confirm or disprove that here?

Well when I first contacted the angling club I'm talking about, I asked if it was safe to catch crayfish. The told me that they were glad I asked first because it's absolutely illegal. Then I went on to ask about fishing laws in general and if it was safe to do it in my town (Renfrew). They said to fish I can go to "Hooked on Fishing" (Local fishing shop) to buy a permit at £60 which covers me for fishing in Renfrew for a full year. I also done a bit of reading and it sounds as if you don't need a licnse in Scotland at all, just written permission (Permit) from whoever owns the waters you're fishing in.

 

[Adze]

That's correct for fresh water, but not for salt water. If you're targeting migratory salmon or trout in an estuary - tidal or not - you might be on a bit of a sticky one, but bait or lure fishing from a shore into a sea loch you won't need either licence or permit.

 

[DeBrus]

That's correct for fresh water, but not for salt water. If you're targeting migratory salmon or trout in an estuary - tidal or not - you might be on a bit of a sticky one, but bait or lure fishing from a shore into a sea loch you won't need either licence or permit.

Hmm, this whole fishing business became a lot more complicated than I anticipated, haha. So, do you think I should get that permit I was told about or do I not really need it? I always see plenty people fishing at the river near my home during summer.

 

[Adze]

I'd have a good read as to what waters are included in the permit and then decide whether those are waters you're likely to fish or not before parting with the money. They should be quite forthcoming with what is included or at least be able to give you some literature about where you can fish with the permit.

The WADAA permit in Cumbria is by no means the whole of Cumbria, but does give access to some pretty good waters and that's £130 a year with a £30 joining fee. So £60 is by no means expensive, but do check what you're actually getting for your money.

 

[DeBrus]

I'd have a good read as to what waters are included in the permit and then decide whether those are waters you're likely to fish or not before parting with the money. They should be quite forthcoming with what is included or at least be able to give you some literature about where you can fish with the permit.

The WADAA permit in Cumbria is by no means the whole of Cumbria, but does give access to some pretty good waters and that's £130 a year with a £30 joining fee. So £60 is by no means expensive, but do check what you're actually getting for your money.

Well there's really only one river where I live, but the thing is, I feel like plenty people fish there without a permit anyway. Also, I'm not sure what exactly there is to fish in that river. It's the river cart which is part of the Clyde, and I've heard that there isn't really anything decent to catch. With that being said, I have seen people catch fish down there before. It would be cool to catch brown crab but I have no idea if that's near where I am at all, also I've yet to figure out if there's any laws on using those crab/lobster traps. I would like to fish properly eventually, but I need to do a bit of saving up for good equipment. These crab/lobster catchers are only about £7 on amazon.