Best 4x4 for rural / remote living - UK

[Martyn]

Actually that's not a bad idea if you have the storage space. Those same mud/snow tires are as useless in deep sand as the slicks are in mud/snow.

Not if you have bead locking rims and a compressor. Drop the pressure down to about 12 psi and you're good to go even on the dunes. But you are probably thinking about them on a hummer. Big difference when your vehicle is twice the weight. Lots of examples of Landies pulling hummers out of the sand in the ME. It's not the tyres that are the problem in that case.

 

[santaman2000]

One thing not mentioned so far; how narrow are the roads where you live?

If you have narrow roads with high banks, then you need a defender. It's incredibly narrow (we found we could park ours in spaces that small cars couldn't get into)...

I haven't checked all the way back along the thread but I think I did ask this earlier when discussing full size vs mini pick-ups; and you're quite right. In the "money is no object" scenario that would be the only consideration preventing me from buying and rebuilding a second hand Humvee H1. BTW when originally designing the Humvee the designers were given a limit on width; it had to be able to fit in any rail tunnel in Europe. Apart from that, they were allowed to make it as wide as need be for better stability than the Jeep it replaced.

 

[santaman2000]

Not if you have bead locking rims and a compressor. Drop the pressure down to about 12 psi and you're good to go even on the dunes. But you are probably thinking about them on a hummer. Big difference when your vehicle is twice the weight. Lots of examples of Landies pulling hummers out of the sand in the ME. It's not the tyres that are the problem in that case.

No, I'm thinking of my old Cherokee. Even dropping the pressure isn't enough here. It works true enough but if 50% + of your driving is in said sand (and most off-roading in Northwest Florida is) then it just makes more sense to go ahead and get the right tires for it.

And your absolutely right that the heavier vehicles aren't the right choice for sand.

 

[Fizzy]

I haven't checked all the way back along the thread but I think I did ask this earlier when discussing full size vs mini pick-ups; and you're quite right. In the "money is no object" scenario that would be the only consideration preventing me from buying and rebuilding a second hand Humvee H1. BTW when originally designing the Humvee the designers were given a limit on width; it had to be able to fit in any rail tunnel in Europe. Apart from that, they were allowed to make it as wide as need be for better stability than the Jeep it replaced.

I thought the wheelbase was specifically designed so it rode in the tank tracks of the M1 Abrams for safety reasons?

 

[santaman2000]

Not according to the documentaries.

 

[Martyn]

No, I'm thinking of my old Cherokee. Even dropping the pressure isn't enough here. It works true enough but if 50% + of your driving is in said sand (and most off-roading in Northwest Florida is) then it just makes more sense to go ahead and get the right tires for it.

And your absolutely right that the heavier vehicles aren't the right choice for sand.

I agree with you, that you should match your vehicle to the environment. The hummer is useless in the UK as the vast majority of our rural areas have been land managed since the Romans were here and they didn't cut tracks and build roads and walls with hummers in mind. Many of the farm gates and breaks in walls and such in the UK are a standard cart width. The Defender was designed to go through them. We also have lots of sharp bends and hairpins in our roads too, which makes life hard for bigger vehicles. With a kerb weight of 2.25 tons, 12 seats and a towing capacity of 3.5 tons, it's not a "mini" pick up.

With regard to mud/snow tyres, they are well suited to a country with a noticeable lack of sand dunes and 200+ days of rain a year (when it's not snowing). Scotland being the wettest/snowiest bit.

 

[santaman2000]

Didn't say the Defenders were mini pick-ups; but fortunately for them, they do have the same general profile and footprint which allows them access to narrow lanes.

 

[Martyn]

Didn't say the Defenders were mini pick-ups; but fortunately for them, they do have the same general profile and footprint which allows them access to narrow lanes.

Nothing fortunate about it, they were designed as flat sided boxes, to maximise internal capacity and still fit through the narrow gaps. That makes em useful in counties that have had extensive land management for the last 2000 years or so. What is fortunate, is that the Romans were obsessive about standardising things, including the wheelbase of a cart - and applied it throughout the Roman empire. The Saxons and every civilisation since, just went with what the Romans had already built - until you fellas decided a carriageway should be a hummers width.

 

[santaman2000]

...What is fortunate, is that the Romans were obsessive about standardising things, including the wheelbase of a cart - and applied it throughout the Roman empire...

There was an interesting documentary about that on Modern Marvels (and elsewhere that I cain't recall at the moment) It stated that the first carts were standardized basically to the width of a horses rear (the horse being the draft animal pulling said cart) That width continued to be the standard width right on into mining and became the width of the rails bearing the ore carts out of the mines (also horse drawn) From there to today's modern railways which then became the standard for modern highways.

It seemed logical enough but I was/am skeptical as it didn't allow for the transition from the first railways (narrow gauge) to the modern width.

 

[santaman2000]

...The Saxons and every civilisation since, just went with what the Romans had already built - until you fellas decided a carriageway should be a hummers width.

LOL. Our highway width (12 feet per lane) hasn't changed for over 3/4 century (long before the Hummer) It's actually based on the width of semi-trailers and commercial traffic.

 

[Ex-member PaganBushcraft]

I have not a clue what you are talking about I am not up on foreign cars I was talking about the jeep used by US troops in WWII the green open top with the big white star on the hood. that was a fantastic 4x4 and when I am talking about a landy I only mean the Defender not range rovers as thay are a girls car mums taking there kids to school in ect' If you buy a posh car you will never offroad it as you will be frightend you might scratch it and the spars cost an arm and a leg. Defenders look better with age like a fine wine dents, scratches, and mud. I am not sure that I like the new Defender with the TD5 engine as the 300 series engine I think was the best that landrover ever made. It all depends on what you want a comfy road car or a good offroader.

When you say orginal Jeep - do you mean:
Willys Overland or the American Bantam? Or included the other "Jeeps" that saw WW2 service - Ford Pygmy or Willys MB

Or do you mean when Jeep became a trade mark of Willy in 1950 or subsequent buy outs in 1953 etc.. The trade mark of Jeep came about in 1950 following the establishing of the Civil Jeep (CJ) range in 1945(ish).

If you mean Jeep as a trade mark then the Chrysller Jeep Wrangler Unlimited is the direct descendant of the CJ (itself from the Willys MB) - except it has more than a 3 speed box and they have improved the ground clearance so it now doesn't keep bottoming out. Extra height also means the engine no longer tends to set fire to dry vegetation if driven through it.

The Wrangler is to the MB what like Land Rover S1 to the new Defender.

Oh Chrysller & Jeep are now part of Fiat.

 

[pastymuncher]

Well you did say money no object.
Who cares about the fuel cost
The green one (MAZ) in the background with the accommodation trailer not the little yellow thing

or this

 

[Ronnie]

I've had a Mitsubishi Delica for almost 2 years now and it hasn't done a thing wrong. Just had it's MOT today - £180 inc MOT and labour - needed a fog light bulb and a couple of parts on the axle replacing - it's 16 years old but still strong as ever and has a full low gearbox.

Snozz

Great car when it works - genuinely all weather. Turbo kicks in hard for over-taking, which is really useful for Highland trunk roads. It's a 4x4, it's a luxo barge, it's a van, it's a camper. With decent HT tyres it laughs at snow, ice, mud, sand or standing water. It's the most versatile car I've ever owned. Fabulous, when it works.

It's been nothing but trouble. I've never had to do so much work on an engine. I'm selling it and getting a Defender. I've lived in one of the most remote parts of the Highlands, and the Defender really is king. Will cruise happily at 60mph all day long which is the legal limit for the vast majority of highland roads, and will equal any other 4x4 on the rough. Most importantly, the whole vehicle is designed to come apart simply and easily. There is a wealth of expertise in this country, and indeed across the world, on how to maintain and repair the Defender. Parts are a fraction of the cost of Japanese stuff. It truly is a sustainable vehicle, because it can be kept on the road for decades.

 

[EdS]

I have not a clue what you are talking about I am not up on foreign cars I was talking about the jeep used by US troops in WWII the green open top with the big white star on the hood. that was a fantastic 4x4 and when I am talking about a landy I only mean the Defender not range rovers as thay are a girls car mums taking there kids to school in ect' If you buy a posh car you will never offroad it as you will be frightend you might scratch it and the spars cost an arm and a leg. Defenders look better with age like a fine wine dents, scratches, and mud. I am not sure that I like the new Defender with the TD5 engine as the 300 series engine I think was the best that landrover ever made. It all depends on what you want a comfy road car or a good offroader.

The Jeep - green with white star as seen in films was a number of vehicles mostly Willys MB or Ford Pygmy. The Willy-Overland and American Bantam where the only cars that where designed for the original design competition.

Compared to newer cars - even to a Suzuki SJ - they where all pretty rubbish off road. Not much ground clearance, limited articulation, weak under powered engines, badly gear - with 3 speed manual box. The where better light 4x4 about at the time

New Ranger Rovers are good off road and I know several people that regularly take me Discoverys off road as workhorse around the Dales. The Disco is as good as the Defender off road and in some areas better and it will pull a trailer better - the 3l TDV6 engine have more torque than the 2.4l Puma. And then there is the TDV8 4.4l from the Ranger Rover. I know of a couple of Defenders that have had that engine transplant - really does pull like a train.

The Defender hasn't had the TD5 since 2007 - when the Ford Puma engine was introduced.

 

[santaman2000]

I have not a clue what you are talking about I am not up on foreign cars I was talking about the jeep used by US troops in WWII the green open top with the big white star on the hood...

What he means is that there were several different versions of the Jeep in WWII made under contract by several different companies (Just the same way that the "Colt" 45 carried by US troops wasn't always made by Colt. All of them had the white star on the hood (but not all of them were green; some were blue or grey if owned by the Navy) but who cares about the paint job if you're talking about off roading?

 

[santaman2000]

...when I am talking about a landy I only mean the Defender not range rovers as thay are a girls car mums taking there kids to school in ect' If you buy a posh car you will never offroad it as you will be frightend you might scratch it and the spars cost an arm and a leg...

I know a few dozen cowboys, a few hundred farmers, and another hundred hunters (OK it's actually a few hundred people who do some combination of all 3 things) who think anything smaller than a full size pick-up (smaller includes Jeeps and Landys) is a girlie vehicle; real men only drive pick-ups in their eyes. I don't know a single one of then who babys his vehicle. They're all pretty well used and abused in the woods, desert, and mountains.

BTW if you want to do some serious 4 wheeling try this www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-gtmFLOrak

 

[Robbi]

this is quite cool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE0zixHwp3A&feature=related

 

[bojit]

I know a few dozen cowboys, a few hundred farmers, and another hundred hunters (OK it's actually a few hundred people who do some combination of all 3 things) who think anything smaller than a full size pick-up (smaller includes Jeeps and Landys) is a girlie vehicle; real men only drive pick-ups in their eyes. I don't know a single one of then who babys his vehicle. They're all pretty well used and abused in the woods, desert, and mountains.

BTW if you want to do some serious 4 wheeling try this www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-gtmFLOrak

Nothing less than a 350 and a dually !

Craig..........

 

[Martyn]

The Defender hasn't had the TD5 since 2007 - when the Ford Puma engine was introduced.

...you mean when the Ford engine was forced on Land Rover due to changes in the Euro emission regs, which cut short the TD5 project well before it's time. The TD5 is more powerful and far more tunable than the "lumpy bonnet" Ford engine.

 

[santaman2000]

Nothing less than a 350 and a dually !

Craig..........

LOL. Lots of those about (in 4WD as well) but TBH they're too heavy for serious 4 wheelers; more for pulling heavy loads on poor roads or muddy fields.