Ban on sale of coal and wet wood.

[Paul_B]

If the Swedes do have fires in every house is be surprised but I bet they're better with managing the fuel. Over here most people don't look at moisture content before burning their wood. There's books about keeping fires the Scandinavian way and they all emphasise good, dry wood. The outlaws got a new woodburner a few years back. When they actually lit it they often turned the heating down because it was too warm with the fire in that room but then the rest of the house was unbearably cold. They've not used that burner since that first winter. Not least because they're getting old and ones given up her license and the other has leg issues so doesn't drive. Getting and splitting wood then. Cleaning and setting the fire. It's now considered not worth the hassle.

I reckon housing in Scandinavia are better insulated and AIUI venting between rooms makes fires more realistic as the main heat source. Plus most Scandinavian houses I've seen have decent wood stores open to a drying airflow. Here you need kiln dried and then store it somewhere dry or it'll have higher moisture content. We're mostly not suited to fires. Perhaps they should be banned in towns and even suburbia.

 

[Paul_B]

My grandad used a poo paraffin heater under his car in the winter. Not sure how safe but it meant his car was warmed up and frost free even in the coldest the UK can muster.

I think that's a hang up from growing up in Michigan up near the Canadian border, Escanaba area iirc. He said it often got cold up there and they all had heaters under cars back then, usually more than one. Also they'd drain the fluids completely on very cold nights apparently. I thought he was fooling me but I really don't know for sure.

 

[slowworm]

Plus most Scandinavian houses I've seen have decent wood stores open to a drying airflow. Here you need kiln dried and then store it somewhere dry or it'll have higher moisture content. We're mostly not suited to fires.

You don't need to kiln dry wood in the UK. One thing the new law doesn't stop is people buying kiln dried wood and then keeping it somewhere wet.

One big difference between the UK and Scandinavia is the climate in the UK is much wetter, even in winter the humidity in Scandinavia is less.

So, we probably need a better wood store than most other countries. Again though, it's not something the legislation helps with.

 

[C_Claycomb]

...Here you need kiln dried and then store it somewhere dry or it'll have higher moisture content. ...

You don't need kiln dried. You do need to manage it though and with cramped modern homes that is difficult.

I have never bought kiln dried, but then I buy my "seasoned" wood more than a year ahead of when I want to burn it. I also store the stuff that has already done a year in my wood store, in my south west facing conservatory for at least 5 months more. There is a significant difference between the one year outdoor stored seasoned wood, and the stuff from the conservatory. I can close the gap by baking the outdoor wood in front of the stove for a day or so and leaving indoors for a week.

With the effort I go to, and being right on the edge of town, I would be quite annoyed if wood stoves were banned here.

 

[TLM]

You don't need kiln dried.

UK certainly is a moister (?) place if measured by absolute moisture content in the air but I think relative humidity is more relevant. In winter here RH is actually fairly high most of the time even though absolute is low.

I burn wood that has stayed at least a year outside split. Haven't noticed any difference to two year old. Wood is stored in a shed with only two walls and quite water tight roof.

 

[Toddy]

The Scottish Government has put a lot of work into pushing us towards being carbon neutral, being energy efficient, and has focused on green energy.

Most of our electricity lines are now buried, and power cuts are really rare. The intent is that no new homes are built with gas fitted, and retroactively that gas is removed from older ones as systems are renewed.

We're not there yet, but it's becoming more nad more acceptable to people.

We all like fire, it's one of the very first signs of humanity, but in an overcrowded, industrialised and urbanised world, open fires are an enormous pollution problem.
Modern efficient burning stoves are a better option...if folks burn clean and dry fuel, but that's not always cheap and too many resent restrictions on their fires despite the fact that they pollute the air for others.

The neighbour who insisted on his rights to burn the treated timber was not the only selfish idiot around according to the Environmental Health officers.

I think it's a time of slow progress. We need to better insulate our homes, make better use of the heat we do produce while still maintaining healthy air flow.
We live in a damp climate, stop the air flow and our homes grow black with mould and fungus gets a grip; that airflow is crucial here where in other really cold countries it is a non issue.

The Grannies used to say put on another layer of clothes, but most now wear pretty much the same few layers all year round and just turn up the thermostat.

We still have a lot of really old houses in the UK too. To us it's normal that a building is still in active use and has been for three or four hundred years or more. Blooming hard to insulate such a home though, even if using three foot thick sandstone walls a storage heater

M

 

[Billy-o]

It is a shame. Gas is the best for cooking with.

 

[Toddy]

You get used to it, and modern electric stoves are very good, very fast, very adjustable.

I grew up with gas cookers, but since I married I've only had electric ones in the house.
It's really a non issue these days.

 

[slowworm]

I still think we're a long way off getting most of our power from renewables. This is especially a critical at this time of year when a high pressure system can result in less wind power. Today, for example 50% of the electric is provided by gas and it's still fairly breezy. I wonder what would happen if a large high pressure settled over Scotland?

Some real world numbers can be found here: https://gridwatch.co.uk/

 

[TLM]

The neighbour who insisted on his rights to burn the treated timber was not the only selfish idiot around according to the Environmental Health officers

As I understand it polychlorinated phenols turn outright toxic when burned in low temp conditions.

 

[Paul_B]

You don't need kiln dried.

True but I still bet most use it. I think there's a mile difference between your level of care over preparation for burning the wood and most other people. Most just buy from cheaper sources that tip it out on your driveway or supply in mesh bags. Then the user simply hauls them into a shed or garage which probably isn't going to help. Then simply take it in to burn as and when needed.

My outlaws basically had a moisture detector. Starts off checking for logs with the right moisture level but by the end of the night it all goes in rather than go out to find some drier wood. That's typical I reckon. It'll come down to the lowest common denominator which isn't you but people like my outlaws.

 

[henchy3rd]

You get used to it, and modern electric stoves are very good, very fast, very adjustable.

I grew up with gas cookers, but since I married I've only had electric ones in the house.
It's really a non issue these days.

Folks who use bottled gas who are reliant on it.I.E, caravans/ motor homes/boats/or just a good old BBQ..I wonder if we’ll still be able to buy or is it just house gas?

 

[henchy3rd]

Unless your burner has a very efficient flue, and is cleaned regularly, and you only use 'clean' fuel, then it contributes to the air pollution of the area you live. Particulate matter from them stinks, and is very, very noticeable to your neighbours......we have a neighbour who insists that burning the treated cut off ends of decking timbers is fine. Funny how the air around us stinks of burning TCP when he lights up.
Environmental Health was not amused.

To be honest, I think it's time and place for stoves and open domestic fires nowadays.
I mind how dirty the local towns and cities were when we all burned fires.

At least mains power comes from stations where they are (or should) be held accountable for the pollution they produce.

Any wood that is treated mustn’t be used in a stove, especially old pallets..it causes so much creosote In the chimney that its dangerous & unkind to the environment & man.

 

[Broch]

We'll still be able to buy and use small quantities of gas, petrol, diesel.... I'm sure. The change will be that no more houses will be built that rely on town gas (means we won't be held to ransom by the Russians as long as we get rid of gas fired power stations as well). Unfortunately, I suspect that means the price for the users that rely on it will go up.

Interestingly, I carried out a technical audit a couple of years ago for some prospective investors for a company that was developing gas powered generators and promoting them as being more environmentally friendly - I persuaded them not to invest

A great deal of woodland in the UK is coppice rotated specifically to supply fuel; if that business was cut out I wonder if there would be support to maintain those environments. There is nothing wrong with burning properly prepared wood in a modern burner that ensures proper burn with minimum particle emission. So, legislation on the wood that is being delivered to the majority of users (i.e. not the very small minority that prepare their own) and on the performance of all stoves sold will, over time as old stove get replaced, deal with any issues that currently exist.

However, I am bias, I love a real fire and I would not live in a house without one - they're soulless to me.

 

[henchy3rd]

When we build any new building or renovate,why not use geothermal/ground heat.

 

[Broch]

It is a shame. Gas is the best for cooking with.

I agree, especially for wok cooking. However, we don't have gas here in the Welsh hills, so, when I put a new kitchen in a few years ago, I put in a 5 burner induction hob. The centre (large) burner is capable of delivering several kw on its own and is very controllable - not quite as good as a knee operated gas burner but close

 

[Broch]

When we build any new building or renovate,why not use geothermal/ground heat.

IIRC there are not many areas in the UK where geothermal energy is economically viable - however, economics change

 

[henchy3rd]

Work out the enviromental costs of building the batteries.
Work out the costs of recycling those batteries.
Work out the costs of battery replacement, they don't last forever.
I won't buy an electric car for those reasons.

Check out the environmental issues concerning lithium batteries.. from generating more tyre dust to disposal/rape of the land & human/flora/fauna kind.
Harsh reading but there it is..not all sugar coated.
Its all down to money/power & personal gain regardless.
I know I’m just seen as a environmentalist/green or conspiracy preacher, but I do my bit regardless.

 

[TeeDee]

When we build any new building or renovate,why not use geothermal/ground heat.

Are you referring to ground source heat pump exchangers?

 

[Toddy]

We have had wood stoves in our summer cottage for the last 60 or so years, wood central heating for the last 30. Wood stove is not quite as fast as el or gas but boiling the tea water does not take long. In winter when central heating is used I burn every other day when cold and every third when not.

Central heating is based on a 1000l water tank that stores the heat. Warm water and central heating use that. We do have a closed fire place that is used sometimes but that is not in any way necessary.

Chimneys are swept once a year, seems enough.

And now you are telling me it does not work!?

If we only had the lum swept once a year then the chimneys were at risk of going on fire.
Have you ever seen a chimney fire ? It roars like a tornado and flares like a dragon blasting through the pots. It scales off burning clinker that falls into and over and out of the firegrate and onto the hearth.
It's not a good idea. It can literally crack the chimney linings and has been the cause of many house fires.

But then, our fires were used day in day out all year long. The only source of heating water for a bath or laundry was the back boiler, and that only worked if the fire was lit. Previous generations used the tank of water that was fitted into the range stoves.