Ash Bow Advice- Who is our resident guru on bowmaking?

[dwardo]

So long as its real silk yeah, If the grain is all over the place though you may want to leave that bit of wood for another project.
Yes you can back it and yes you could add a laminate backing but if you just want a selfbow then it might not be suitable and a waste of wood.
Could do with some pics of the grain.

 

[ateallthepies]

Here is my tiller 'tree' if it helps...

Sorry it's blurry but it was hard to hold 70lbs while taking a piccy!

If you have ring lines running the length of the stave showing on the back and belly and also have ring lines on the side profile that travel the full length without wandering off to either the back or belly side then this is fine left un-backed. Any ring lines that travel off to one side viewed from any surface means you loose some integrity depending how severe the deviations are and backing is recommended.
Backing is not a guarantee on a dodgy stave that has ring or fibre run-offs but can help. Always best to start with the best wood as possible.

Steve.

 

[ateallthepies]

Also I recommend a book called 'The bent stick' by Paul Comstock as well as the Traditional Bowyers Bible series. The former book got me my first shooter after several breakages.

Steve

 

[Treeclipper]

I've taken some pic's, this is where I find out I've got a dodgy stick isn't it







ahh well at least the first bow I made is a shooter, here's a pic of my eldest's girl's bow.




I'm think I'm going to have to purchase some reading material then, ohh and find myself some new wood , I'm not giving up, I neeeed a bow of my own

 

[ateallthepies]

I would say that stave stands a high chance of failure. You have ring run-offs both on the sides and belly and back.

As dwardo said, a timber lamination on the back would be the only way to save this stave.

Steve

 

[ateallthepies]

The best way IMO to get a good bow with Ash is to cut a small tree of about 5 or more inches in diameter. Split it in half, take the bark off and there you have a pristine unbroken ring for the back.

Where I live they chopped down all the pipe straight Ash along the M25 to widen it. I have enough Ash to last quite a while now!

Finding decent bow wood in milled lumber boards is hard for the experienced let alone a beginner and most yards don't let us bowyers rummage for that gem hidden in the racks.

Steve.

 

[Treeclipper]

to be honest if I went out looking for wood , I wouldn't know what to look for . I have got my self a collins gem on tree's , but I'm still not the greatest at it . Also not sure where around here it would be ok for me to take wood from, that's why I bought that bit of wood of the net, lol at least thought I'd get a decent bit.

 

[ateallthepies]

That's the trouble as usual, having somewhere to go where permission might be granted to take some. One idea is to contact a local tree surgeon and see if they can help for a drink or something. They probably will just shred the sort of log you want so I can't see a problem with them putting some aside for you?

If you can't get and trees and have to use lumber boards, look for one that has perfectly straight lines on all sides or as near to as possible. This is called a ring bias board and will make a good un-backed bow.

Another option is to buy a Lemonwood (Degame) board. This is a tropical hardwood that has no rings or they are very faint. You can basically ignore all the usual rules and just build a bow. Places like Richard Head Longbows supply it but with shipping can be pricey.

HTH,

Steve.

 

[Treeclipper]

do you know if the laminated boards they sell on eBay are any good or is that another case of throwing good money after bad?

 

[ateallthepies]

Do you mean these ones...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Longbow-W...90594849251?pt=UK_Archery&hash=item43a8cd81e3

Not used them myself but should be fine for a longbow, not suitable for a flat bow style though, feedback seems good. Ok price too.

I have used the laminate kit from Bickerstaffe bows before I knew how to laminate my own staves. Again very pricey now but a decent kit.

Steve.

 

[dwardo]

Gotta agree with ateallthepies there are run-offs all over the place there. If it was sold as a "selfbow stave" ask for your money back or a better bit of wood.
I have tried all of my timber merchants within a 30 or so mile radius all have been usless for our needs. If you get stuck and can find your way up north then i know a few people with access to land.

 

[Treeclipper]

ahh well, at least I know now. I take it it's not salvagable at all or worth completeing. Feel a bit gutted about this, it's taken me 4 years to get to this stage with it(due to time issues).
No chance of me getting my money back or new bit of wood ,like I say I bought the wood 4 yrs ago .

I had my heart set on a flatbow, don't really want a longbow so that rules out most of the stuff to buy online & I def. feel a bit wary about buying wood over the net now.
When I originally thought about building a bow , I tried a lot of the local wood merchants and tree surgeons, not the most helpfull chaps in the world , most of them looked at me as if I was a crazy person when I told them what I was looking for.

At least I've now got a decent tiller tree , will just have to put bow building on hold until I can get something.

 

[dwardo]

Check out the postage from the Chester region to your self and let me know how much it is by PM

 

[stovie]

You might want to have a word with Stovie. He made some bows in the past, and I think he still does. Isn't much online these days. A PM will do I reckon

Thanks for the recomendation Ahjno...not as quiet as you might think; just got back from Canada (more on that anon).

Andy, I would suggest backing the ash you have at the moment (decent silk) and go for it. You would do well to keep the final draw weight around 45-50lbs at most, that way you may still end up with a reasonable shooter, instead of firewood.

My other suggestion is to buy a 7ft length of 2x2" oak from a timber store of your choice. I spent two hours once going through every length of oak until I found a tight grained bit that suited my needs, and produced a very servicable bow which is still shooting nearly 4yrs later.

Ultimately with ash, the best advice has been given, and that is to strip the bark and use the unblemished wood as the back of the bow, removing wood only from belly and sides...and remember, keep it long and wide(ish)...

 

[Treeclipper]

thanks for the advice, I'll give the backing a try, after spending so much time on this one I would like to see it through. I'll have to look for silk, although I have got some green linen(found it in attic while checking parachute, it was rip stop so can't use it for the backing). I noticed other folks have used linen could I use that with a watered down pva then?

 

[ateallthepies]

Yes but again not something I have tried. Some bowyers think Linen fabric gives little protection to a violated bow, some think it's OK.

Here are some links to an archery forum I use on linen...

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/17139
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/39407
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/20255
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/33241

Although I think a wood back would be better, I realize it is a lot of work and that glueing some linen on is quick and easy. You will only know if it will hold together if you try. I think glueing on rows of Linen string would be better than fabric but again more work.

ATB,

Steve.

 

[Treeclipper]

Hi all,

sorry it took so long to get back with some pictures of the bow, haven't really had the inclination to do any work on it until the other week ( me being lazy ).
I have backed it with linen, it was gonna cost me more to go get it than it was worth & I did promise myself I wouldn't spend ,spend spend on this project.
The backing went on really well , I'm at the point now of removing wood little by little, not sure if the fades( think thats the right word) are to thick at the handle.
Anyway here's what I've got so far:

http://www.andychapman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/WebandeBaypics/flatbow1.jpg
http://www.andychapman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/WebandeBaypics/flatbow2back.jpg
http://www.andychapman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/WebandeBaypics/flatbow3.jpg
http://www.andychapman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/WebandeBaypics/flatbow4tiller.jpg

as usual , any advice/help is most welcome

Andy

 

[Rumcelt]

Hi all
Nice looking bows.

I shoot a try laminated warbow myself.
Are there any bowyers in Bushcraft uk?
Regards
Rum

 

[dwardo]

Looking good, just keep going slowly, few scrapes full length on each limb then exercise the bow in between scraping sessions. Just remember never to pull the bow past your desired draw weight at any point during tillering. Slow slow and have fun. Also try to get it moving at the fades, the more working limb the more the load is shared over a bigger area.

 

[palmnut]

Are there any bowyers in Bushcraft uk?

Yep. As I lay here in bed I have a Elder, Hazel and Whitebeam bows within a couple of feet of me waiting final tillering/finishing and finished Hazel and Ash bows just over there - must make myself a bow rack one day.

Most of my online bowmaking time is spent on Paleoplanet. Most of my bowmaking social time is spent with a group known as the Prehistoric Archery and Atlatl Society http://www.thepaas.org/index.html. The PAAS gets together 6 or 7 times a year and we spend the weekends making/chatting/show-and-telling about any primitive weapons we care to (bows, atlatl, spears, slings, flint - you name it). Most get togethers are southern England based however - we need more northern members!

dwardo: Were you one of the guys at the Wye Valley get together a week or two ago?

Peter