Artic kit questions.

[RE8ELD0G]

So in start to my planning for an Artic trip to Norway/Sweden I am starting this thread to ask kit questions.

First 2.

Mitts.....
Will brit army fur linners in the goretex outers do for these sort of temps?
If not then pls tell me some others that would work.


Mukluks.
Canadian army mukluks with felt/wool liners?
Would lowa goretex boots with either my Berghaus yeti gaiters or brit army mukluk over boots work?
Or something else?

Thanks.

 

[bopdude]

The Brit Army Gortex Mittens with wool mit liners were warm to the point of hot for me on our trip, I took Canadian Mukklukks with liners and insoles, only got to wear them once as it was borderline wet in places, no experience with the overboots but I was looking at them prior to obtaining the Mukklukks.

 

[RE8ELD0G]

Thanks.
What temps were you using them?

 

[Janne]

Get woolen mittens, Google " Lovikka vantar". buy them online from Sweden.

No need tor a water tight outer for the mittens. The snow is cold and dry. You just clap your hands together and the snow falls off.
Mittens are quite useless to work in, clumsy. Get also a pair of gloves, maybe some kind of fleece with a water tight outer layer to work in.

I have used thick Lovikkas down to -52C.
Remember, no matter the temperature or thickness of mittens/gloves, you need to move the fingers all the time. Clench our hands. Play air piano.


Mukluks are fine I am sure, but look into something that is well tested by hundreds of thousands of guys over at least half a century.
Swedish Army felt overboots.
www.beredskapsboden.com
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrE1xsan6JbucEAbgNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTBybGY3bmpvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1537413018/RO=10/RU=https://www.beredskapsboden.se/en/shoes-and-accesories/swedish-army-vintage-feltboots-overboots-used.html/RK=2/RS=TaGOWDNzZu.16Qi3g7_0aRlJfsM-

The whole idea with overboots is that you get several extra layers, but the crucial, inner layer, is your usual, worn in boot.
No blisters. Buy big.

Personally I would only buy equipment that has been developed by the Swedish, Norwegian or Finnish armed forces.
Why?

Those temperatures are 'normal' for them
The expected conflict during the cold War was to happen during winter. Those countrie's winter equipment is 100% functional, extremely well tried and tested and of superb quality.
Had to last.

 

[RE8ELD0G]

I already have a pair of waterproof sealskinz gauntlets.
But want something for when I'm sat around as I do get very cold hands.

 

[Robson Valley]

Look at what the Canadian Inuit people have been wearing in winter for thousands of years.
Leather shell mittens on a long cord with fur liners are good to -40C. Wool liners will have to do.
Maybe an inner-most reflective pair of thin gloves for manual tasks. Mine are in with my hunting kit.

 

[Janne]

Get also a hand warmer. The type where you lit a carbon stick. I had 4, one for each mitten and two I placed at top of the boots, loosely pushed in.

Robson V, fur is the best. Not easy to get in UK these days. Real, hand made woolen Lovikka mittens are the second best.
The Same have enjoyed similar mittens since times long forgotten.

Most Fenno Scandi winter Mil equipment can be traced back to the Same designs.

 

[Robson Valley]

The real deal with wool is that it's hard to wet and doesn't lose much loft, unlike most synthetics.
Wool fiber is hollow, more air-holding capacity.
Is the yarn woolen or worsted? Makes a difference. What's the staple length?
Sheep, Llama, Alpaca, Musk Ox, dog?

Find some little old lady that enjoys knitting. Buy her all the wools you like and the patterns for
mittens, socks and head gear. Pay her well for custom-made clothing.
I have a wool sweater coming for Solstice as a gift from me to me.

Inuit dress clothing has some fur-out. Most otherwise, the clothing is skin out and fur inside.
I have a sheepskin coat with maybe 2" fur inside. I can't wear it warmer than -20C = I'll die coming indoors.

 

[sunndog]

leather over mitts with wool liners are great and very very warm
Hestra gloves are very good for general working

Mukluks work for sure but it better be dry cold
Pac boots are a good middle ground

Felt overboots I've never used but look very good and breathable

 

[Grotzilla]

I used Swedish army mittens and inners, these worked great (the ones with white leather palms.) I also took woolpower 400 Mittens but didn't have any need for them.

In terms of footwear I wore sorrel caribou boots with British army Artic socks and had no problems at all, they also worked great with my MSR snowboots.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Janne]

I expect you to be exposed to -20C to -30C. That is a fantastic temperature. Dry.
With bad luck, it will hover around 0C. +5C to -2C is the worst. Wet.

Do not wish for colder than -30C. Frost damaged skin itches like mad.
My cheeks, nose and ears still itch. Daily. 35 years later.

 

[RE8ELD0G]

Luckily my mum lives with us and she lives knitting.
May grab some Balls of merino wool and get her to make me some.
Or maybe just buy some reindeer pelt and make some nice cosy one for myself.

What are pac boots?
And what temps were you all using this kit in?

I'm aiming for - 30°c or below so want to make sure I'm warm and dry.

 

[Janne]

If she knits, that means she can do mittens and socks that fit perfectly!

Get her to make you two pairs of Lovikka mittens, one with just enough space ( NOT tight fitting like a glove!) and one where you can fit gloves in. Both big enough so you can wash and shrink them.

Plus socks. One pair o fit over thick cotton long socks, and one more pair to fit on top of the first woolen socks.

You can find the instructions to knit Lovikka mittens online. Choose the thick ones.
If she is skilled maybe she can do a nice design on them?

 

[Grotzilla]

We were at worse in - 22 but most days it was around - 16.

Honestly I wouldn't like to be in - 30

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[Robson Valley]

Felt-Pacs are shell boots (maybe insulated) with removable felt insulated liners.
Mine are meant for snowmobile sports, out in the mountain snow from dawn until dusk.
Just for getting around the village at -20C for shopping, I can jump in _barefoot_ and away I go.
My Canadian size 12 feet are 11.5" long. My boots are 14" long.

If I had to be in those boots all day long at work, I'd own at least 2 spare sets of liners as dry replacements every day.
We have a variety of brands but the principle is the same. You pay a bundle for -60C boots.
Most of them have really wild and aggressive knobby tread patterns which would never fit any XC ski and they chew the Hello
out of snowshoe bindings.

 

[Janne]

The Swedish felt overboots have different type of soles. Depending on age. The ones I wore back in prehistory had leather soles with rubber 'nibs' attached.

Rebeldog, Grotzilla is correct. You do not want to go into extreme temperatures. Sure it is cool. But one mistake can cost you a nose tip. I did not enjoy anything below around -25C. Just the task of taking a dump.
Planning how o do one.
If any of my boys got diarrhea in temps below -30, I had them airlifted out.
It did happen a few times. You can get diarrhea if you do not boil the freeze dried gunk we lived of properly. And as you can not melt enough snow to drink, you dehydrate rapidly.

Sure, it was cool to be in the nature when it was -52C.. But myself and most of my boys got frost damage in the face.
Us humans are not made for those temps!
As I wrote, I still suffer from it.

The only thing I wish is that it was -52.5 or maybe 0.5C colder, as that would mean I went through the record temp in Sweden ( I believe it is still -52.5C ?)

 

[SGL70]

I used this YT-series to knit a pair of Lovikka mittens:

I'm certain there is one/several in the anglo-saxon tounge...

I made my (first attempt) during a weekend without having to put in 8 hour days.

Greger

 

[bopdude]

Thanks.
What temps were you using them?

The worst we had was -23 C on average it was between -8 to -12 C iirc. Like I said, borderline wet by Arctic temps, boots were Kamik

https://www.kamik.com/b2c_int_en/me...llection-fw17/nationplus-19712.html#color=dbr

Did the job, with 2 pair of socks.

EDIT when I go again I'll put felt insoles under the liners

EDIT EDIT gloves with some dexterity were

https://www.arco.co.uk/products/14G4800?s=1

Nice and warm for the most part, if kept dry.

 

[vestlenning]

Rebeldog, Grotzilla is correct. You do not want to go into extreme temperatures. Sure it is cool. But one mistake can cost you a nose tip.

+1. The North/South Pole etc "turists" from Norway would agree, low temps are dangerous, more than one of the "tough guys/girls" have permanent damage to show as proof.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Bear in mind that while you may "wish" for sub -30C, you can't control the weather. I have been to Canada twice for winter course, on both we were hoping to get time at -20C, but it did not work out that way. You make plans, book flights, arrange places to stay, months or at least weeks in advance, then watch the weather forecast develop like an expectant parent! In our case, first trip, weather had been pretty warm with the snow becoming coarse and granular with multiple thaw/freeze cycles. When we were there we got a few nights where it got down to about -16C, but days were warmer. Boots got wet. Canadian Army Mukluks with plastic wrapped around the felt liners worked well, but we did have access to a shelter with a stove so gear could dry a bit over night.

Second trip looked more promising, forecast was -30C for the night we arrived....but then it warmed up and we ran at around -10C for most of the rest of the two weeks we were there. The first night and day were interesting. You might think you want to camp at -40C, like some people swim with sharks, or climb Everest, but I don't think you should dismiss -20C to -30C. It is quite different from the experience of -10C and offers many of the joys of low temperatures; powdery snow, dry air, frozen nasal hair .