Are the Gov trying to remove our right to an allotment...????

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didicoy

Full Member
Mar 7, 2013
541
12
fens
I would like to see someone say its a leisure activity after a good weekends digging, weeding, mucking out chicken and pig sheds etc... :)
Surely your not implying that without this other food imput, veg growing, pig rearing etc you would starve, not be able to maintain a healthy diet for you and your family? I have had 4 allotments in over 30 years. I have kept chickens, goats, horses, grown veg etc. I can honestly say going onto the allotment at 6.30am with a cup of tea in hand and weeding before going to work was both pleasurable and painful. I did it for the pleasure, not for any other reason. keeping livestock and growing veg never really paid for its self. yes you can aurgue that digging in spuds is hard. I used my tractor. You can say that is no fun knee deep in pig ****. You chose this path and if your honest with yourself, you really like what your doing.
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,141
88
W. Yorkshire
I wasn't implying anything of the sort. :)

I like the rewards at the end of it all, i like the planning involved during the year, I like been outside learning and putting learned knowledge to proper use... i like to look after the soil and make it better than it was when i found it... yes there are many things i enjoy about it. I like to lead a life as self sufficiently as i can, so i grow, raise, breed many things.. I'm self employed also, But one thing is for sure... its probably one the hardest and most work involved lifestyles you could ever lead. But it ain't a leisure activity, its a hard working lifestyle.


Surely your not implying that without this other food imput, veg growing, pig rearing etc you would starve, not be able to maintain a healthy diet for you and your family? I have had 4 allotments in over 30 years. I have kept chickens, goats, horses, grown veg etc. I can honestly say going onto the allotment at 6.30am with a cup of tea in hand and weeding before going to work was both pleasurable and painful. I did it for the pleasure, not for any other reason. keeping livestock and growing veg never really paid for its self. yes you can aurgue that digging in spuds is hard. I used my tractor. You can say that is no fun knee deep in pig ****. You chose this path and if your honest with yourself, you really like what your doing.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,709
1,947
Mercia
The argument that "if its possible to get someone else to do it, its a leisure activity" doesn't hold water didicoy. Some people enjoy bricklaying - does that make house building a leisure activity? Some devote their spare hours to the St Johns ambulance - does that make medicine a leisure activity?

You are entitled to your point of view - and I suspect I cannot change your mind, but I cannot see a logical basis for the viewpoint.
 

didicoy

Full Member
Mar 7, 2013
541
12
fens
I wasn't implying anything of the sort. :)

I like the rewards at the end of it all, i like the planning involved during the year, I like been outside learning and putting learned knowledge to proper use... i like to look after the soil and make it better than it was when i found it... yes there are many things i enjoy about it. I like to lead a life as self sufficiently as i can, so i grow, raise, breed many things.. I'm self employed also, But one thing is for sure... its probably one the hardest and most work involved lifestyles you could ever lead. But it ain't a leisure activity, its a hard working lifestyle.
I think HillBill you are an exception to the average allotment holder, your closer to a small holder. I expanded along with the tractor to 5 acres, whilst being self employed. The Fun stops when the pressure starts. I don't know of any leisure farmers. I know lots of rich people playing at farming. The old boys who tended their allotments next to me, were seaking more than the earth could provide. Allotments can have their own community and this community can be as important as the need to grow things.
 

didicoy

Full Member
Mar 7, 2013
541
12
fens
The argument that "if its possible to get someone else to do it, its a leisure activity" doesn't hold water didicoy. Some people enjoy bricklaying - does that make house building a leisure activity? Some devote their spare hours to the St Johns ambulance - does that make medicine a leisure activity?

You are entitled to your point of view - and I suspect I cannot change your mind, but I cannot see a logical basis for the viewpoint.
I am a skilled hedgelayer. If I choose to volunteer with a conservation group for instance. The hedgelaying deos not become a part of my business promotion, it becomes a leisure activity for me, as participating in countryside conservation.
 

Andy BB

Full Member
Apr 19, 2010
3,290
1
Hampshire
Personally I don't sign e-petitions without knowing the full facts. same way as I don't sign any legal document without reading and understanding it in full first. Sorry, but I'm funny that way! Too easy to be taken as a sucker otherwise whilst someone plays the emotional heart-strings.

As for allotments being essential to provide sufficient sustenance to avoid starvation to the huddled masses in the UK - really?
 

Joonsy

Native
Jul 24, 2008
1,483
3
UK
for those that would like to know how allotments came in to existence in the first place you may like to see this link http://www.nsalg.org.uk/allotment-info/brief-history-of-allotments/

nowadays, like all activities, people keep allotments for all sorts of reasons, some just like to grow their own food wether it is cheaper or not, some retried people see it as a way to get them out of the house and do it for nothing more than enjoyment, some like to get a bit more serious and take it to the showing level, although a great deal of work can be expended some see that as keeping healthy especially if they live a sedentary life otherwise, i somehow doubt if many allotment holders resent the hard work but feel rewarded by it, exactly in the same way as any craftsman of any subject would sit back and enjoy their finished product, the reward is felt in achieving the end product, you are working towards an end goal and the work is just a means to an end. Somehow i feel that those that have allotments purely to grow cheap food and resent the work are maybe in the minority, if you didn't feel any reward you might just as well buy your produce from a shop. My opinion is that when anything at all is done for no other reason than pure pleasure even if that involves hard work then that is a leisure activity, some gardeners who garden for nothing more than pretty looks expand a great deal of dedicated hard work equal to any allotment holder but just do it because they love it, and personally I think the average allotment holder does it for exactly the same reason ‘pleasure’. Allotments are simlar to do it yourself’ers, they do it because they want to not because they have to, I can remember when there were hardly any big do it yourself stores and people used tradesmen. Allotments are not comparable to farming, farming is done as a necessity and also for profit, and now that we can just buy food if we so wish as the vast majority do perhaps the best place to learn about ‘food’ is in school from a young age. I think the reason there are so many cooking programmes on tv is because they are cheap to make, one thing I have always wondered about is what happens to all that food after the programme has finished. And finally, I think ‘leisure’ is a necessity too to maintain a healthy mind, and a good many people get much too little of it while a good many get much too much of it.
 

Macaroon

A bemused & bewildered
Jan 5, 2013
7,209
362
73
SE Wales
Getting pleasure from an activity is not the same thing as that activity being a leisure activity - what's wrong with getting pleasure from it?

As far as I'm concerned, it should be a cherished right for anybody to be able to affordably get a small plot to grow what they deem neccessary for pleasure, health and a general satisfaction and sense of fullfilment; all the better if this leads to improved health, a sense of common purpose and a knowledge of and respect for food and it's provenance.

All the rest is twaddle; what's to argue against in the above? :)
 

Orchard

Forager
Dec 17, 2013
185
0
Abergavenny
Fwiw i'm firmly with BR here. The definition of 'leisure' is historically contentious, however imo statements like the one earlier belittle domestic activity that some still value.

One thing's for certain, whether i'm juggling my time dropping stock/breaking down lamb, or working the land to ensure my family consume food with provenance, these acts are quite different to attending a theatrical performance or playing football :)
 

Joonsy

Native
Jul 24, 2008
1,483
3
UK
i have some elderly retired neighbours that held down hard manual jobs all their life and now have an allotment for no other reason than getting them out of the house, keeping them active, and enjoying the company of other allotment holders, they occasionally treat neighbours with free surplus produce and refuse any money offered, so we help them in return with transport and various other tasks around their home. They get a great deal of enjoyment from their allotment and maintain it for no other reason than pure pleasure and unlike some they don't expect to get any medals or recognition or a pat on the back from anybody for what they do.
 

TallMikeM

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 30, 2005
574
0
54
Hatherleigh, Devon
an allotment can be a leisure pursuit for some and an important way of feeding themselves and their family to others and sometimes it can be both and one never precludes the other. It would appear that some people posting in this thread are looking for a one size fits all definition. For me, when we had our allotment it was both, now we have a small holding it is also both.
 

didicoy

Full Member
Mar 7, 2013
541
12
fens
an allotment can be a leisure pursuit for some and an important way of feeding themselves and their family to others and sometimes it can be both and one never precludes the other. It would appear that some people posting in this thread are looking for a one size fits all definition. For me, when we had our allotment it was both, now we have a small holding it is also both.

I agree with you. One size doesn't fit all and anyone who has spent time on allotments, knows there is a lot more to it than growing vegetables.
 

slowworm

Full Member
May 8, 2008
1,979
931
Devon
This is why I think the allotment act needs to be amended and updated for today. Allotments currently aren't there just to provide food to the needy, far from it.

Currently many people have no chance of getting one, some people have more than one (I knew someone with six a few years ago), some people do little more than farm 'carpets' etc, etc.

If you want them to help the needy grow food then means test them or better still provide something like a community garden where experienced people help others.

If they are genuinely to be provided to all then if your council doesn't then you should get compensated. That may sound a bit daft until you think about it for a while.

Having a quick look through the petition site, this one sounds much better (and less political too!): http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44634 Shame it didn't get many signatories.
 

bigbear

Full Member
May 1, 2008
1,061
210
Yorkshire
Tend to agree with BR and Macaroon here.
on a positive and non political note the good news is that we now have a full allotment and not just a half.
the mists are clearing..........looking into the future I see...........digging, digging and more digging..........
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,709
1,947
Mercia
Tend to agree with BR and Macaroon here.
on a positive and non political note the good news is that we now have a full allotment and not just a half.
the mists are clearing..........looking into the future I see...........digging, digging and more digging..........

Don't worry, it'll be interspersed with weeding :)
 
Jul 30, 2012
3,570
224
westmidlands
has been attempted many times, by goverments and councils, all that prime land going to waist. As its eric pickles I suspect he has other intentions.

Still only just over 2000 signed. Send it to a gardners forum, or 49 degrees.
 

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