Are rabbits indiginous to the UK?

[Silverback]

Shamelessly nabbed from an obscure web site but probably relevant here given the slant this thread is now taking.........

An old German story recounts how a poor woman hid some brightly coloured eggs in her garden as Easter treats for children. While the children were searching for the eggs, a hare hopped past, leading the children to think that the hare had left the eggs. Consequently, every Easter German children would make nests of leaves and branches in their gardens for the hare. The custom was brought to the United States by German immigrants where the hare became a rabbit due to the fact that rabbits were more abundant in the US.

European legend has it that hares never closed their eyes and watched the other animals throughout the night. This myth led to them becoming a symbol of the moon. The celebration date of Easter is dependant on the moon and thus hares became associated with the celebration.

 

[Seagull]

Dunno the foundings of these rabbits, but, is it true that the reason for the long ears, is to hold up the pie crust?

Ceeg

 

[gregorach]

Another little rabbit lore for the pot... According to Neil Gaiman, the origin of the question "heads or tails" is not related to coins, but rather to which bit of the rabbit you prefer.

As far a I know the only evidence for the Roman introduction of rabbits is a single leg bone found on a dock site in London.

That's interesting. It wouldn't be the first time Adam Hart Davis has stated something based on very shaky premises as absolute fact. It's a shame really, as I really like his programs.

 

[Feral]

The American rabbit is a different species than the European one, which originates from Spain. When calesi was released that is why it had such a dramatic affect on the European rabbits, it was a disease that was comman to the cottontails in America but had little effect on them. Down here the rabbit is a feral pest, but since the release of calesi the numbers of rabbits have decreased slightly, but with a few years of wet weather the calesi is having a lesser effect. Only in the past few years have the states allowed you to keep rabbits and farm rabbits.

 

[pumbaa]

We also have a type of rabbit that dosn't live in a burrow , they are know localy as bush rabbits (cos they live in bushes) . I dont know if they are definately a different species , but they definately dont burrow . Hunting them is a lot more difficult as they are vey warey of any noise , smell or movement .

Also just down the road , on the isle of portland it was illegal to call a rabbit a rabbit ! This was due to them burrowing around the mines , whinch in turn collasped , killing a lot of the miners . I remember storys of people being arrested for this heinous crime back when i were a lad . Prosecution stopped when they moved the court house to weymouth .

 

[DarDar]

As an interesting side note i just found out on monday night that the red squirrel is not indienous to ireland but was brought over as a wedding present. A couple were getting married and one of their presents was a basket of squirrels which upon being presented to the bride and groom was opened up.....and surprise surprise the squirrels ran off for the trees!!!

 

[Tadpole]

Another little rabbit lore for the pot... According to Neil Gaiman, the origin of the question "heads or tails" is not related to coins, but rather to which bit of the rabbit you prefer.



That's interesting. It wouldn't be the first time Adam Hart Davis has stated something based on very shaky premises as absolute fact. It's a shame really, as I really like his programs.

The Romans brought rabbits to England, this is a fact as shown by both depictions on Samian ware bowls, made in the UK. There were also several depictions of rabbits being hunted by hounds. Mosaic floor tiles showing rabbits were found in archaeological dig in Cirencester in the 1970.
Also in Norfolk there have been found the remains of butchered rabbits dating back two thousand years

Marcus Terrentius Varro (116-27 B.C.) wrote in that they (the Romans) brought rabbits from Spain to Britain where they were reared in Ceporaria. Rabbit embryos, known as laurices were a highly esteemed delicacy by Roman gourmets.

 

[Wayland]

The Romans brought rabbits to England, this is a fact as shown by both depictions on Samian ware bowls, made in the UK. There were also several depictions of rabbits being hunted by hounds. Mosaic floor tiles showing rabbits were found in archaeological dig in Cirencester in the 1970.
Also in Norfolk there have been found the remains of butchered rabbits dating back two thousand years

Marcus Terrentius Varro (116-27 B.C.) wrote in that they (the Romans) brought rabbits from Spain to Britain where they were reared in Ceporaria. Rabbit embryos, known as laurices were a highly esteemed delicacy by Roman gourmets.

Hmm. I haven't read that literary account, that's interesting I shall have to check it out.

I have seen the Cirencester "rabbits" and a couple of problems exist. Cirencester had a good workshop producing mosaics for many of the villas in the area. Such pictures were ordered from pattern books and could often contain mythical creatures and gods too. The same incidentally could also be said of samian ware.

The second problem is that the depictions I have seen could unfortunately just as easily be badly drawn hares.

My instinct tells me that the Romans quite possibly did bring rabbits here but archeologically speaking, at the moment I don't think we've found the smoking gun.

But as they say, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Wayland

"Trust me, I'm a Viking." ....(and sometimes a Roman)

www.lore-and-saga.co.uk

 

[Tadpole]

Hmm. I haven't read that literary account, that's interesting I shall have to check it out.

I have seen the Cirencester "rabbits" and a couple of problems exist. Cirencester had a good workshop producing mosaics for many of the villas in the area. Such pictures were ordered from pattern books and could often contain mythical creatures and gods too. The same incidentally could also be said of samian ware.

The second problem is that the depictions I have seen could unfortunately just as easily be badly drawn hares.

My instinct tells me that the Romans quite possibly did bring rabbits here but archeologically speaking, at the moment I don't think we've found the smoking gun.

But as they say, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Wayland

"Trust me, I'm a Viking." ....(and sometimes a Roman)

www.lore-and-saga.co.uk

Insitu rabbit bones have been found in Lynford, Norfolk, at a project funded by Ayton Products. This find 'may' be proof of the definitive pre-Norman rabbit. Six bones were in a rubbish pit that also contained the only sherds of a local late iron age or early Roman pottery type, amongst extensive iron age settlement.
In recently studied by Simon Parfitt, (Natural History Museum,) claims that the bones were found to have been butchered and have fine cuts on them and two have their ends chopped off.
"There is no doubt they are butchery remains", says Parfitt. Julie Curl, animal bone specialist and David Robertson, former project manager at the Norfolk Archaeological Unit, say the find is "of huge significance".
Two other rabbit bones have been found at Beddingham Roman villa site of East Sussex. David Rudling, (University of Sussex,) says “the bones were in late third century add fill over a disused bath house. One bone is darkened by charcoal in the earth,” and thus, says Rudling, “unlikely to be intrusive.” Parfitt says that at both sites the bones are from smaller rabbits of southern Mediterranean type, supporting Roman attributions.

just found a link, and the news is newish, if you get what I mean

 

[Wayland]

Sounds like rabbit is back on the menu in the Roman kitchen then. Great, thanks for that.

I'm always dubious about demonstrating something from a single source but I think thats enough for me to go on.

 

[British Red]

On a rather diversionary prompted by Mary's post, I wwas wondering if anyone had a view on the meaning or origin of the triple hare symbol? It seems to crop up in the most unlikely places (rather like the Green Man)

Red

 

[torjusg]

Intresting read all.

Also another question. About hares this time. Is it true that the mountain hares in Ireland are blue + that they don't change colour?

 

[dave k]

There is a possibility that the Romans introduced the Hare for sport as coursing was very popular even then. The breeding success of hares is largely dictated by the weather with long periods of dry weather producing successfully raised litters and cold wet weather obviously resulting in high mortality rates among young. A hare will also typically give birth to two or three leverets as opposed to a rabbit where litters of six to eight are quite common. Add to this the solitary nature of the hare and the fact that they exist totally above ground and the population count is a winner for the rabbit hands down. The last few summers has resulted in a massive increase in hares on the particular estate I under keep and I would estimate we have between 45 and 60 resident hares at any one time. Hares are not considered the threat to crops that rabbits present however where the hare differs from the rabbit is its habit of selecting only the freshest and healthy produce, consuming only a small amount before moving on and therefore not creating obvious grazed patches. Despite a recent increase, hare populations have depleted by around 75% since world war two for which modern agricultural techniques have been blamed. The introduction of set aside has certainly contributed towards what I would hope is a reverse in the general population decline.

This is really interesting - My other half says a lot of the current Christian rituals and important dates are infact just stolen from the pagan calender. In the early days the church wanted to stop the spread of paganisim, so they stole all their best holidays and used them for their own..

 

[Wayland]

They also stole a few of Gods and made saints of them...

 

[loz.]

Intresting read all.

Also another question. About hares this time. Is it true that the mountain hares in Ireland are blue + that they don't change colour?

Apparently not just "Irish" Mountain Hares !

Linky

 

[anthonyyy]

Intresting read all.

Also another question. About hares this time. Is it true that the mountain hares in Ireland are blue + that they don't change colour?

We get very little snow in Ireland so yes hares don't change colour. They are brown. (where did you get the idea that they are blue?)

 

[torjusg]

We get very little snow in Ireland so yes hares don't change colour. They are brown. (where did you get the idea that they are blue?)

Read it somewhere... :bluThinki

Found this:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~edrice/mammals/irishhare.htm

Maybe it is just the name.

 

[Wolfie]

I think it all depends how far in time you want to go back and what you mean by indiginous. I was reading about rabbits recently and if I remember right the article was saying they were present in what is now the UK pre Ice Age but then these populations died out and that the rabbit was then RE-introduced to Britain possibly by the Romans but certainly by the Norman period. I havn't got the book to hand but I'll try and find the refernence details when I can

 

[sharp88]

I was always told they were introduced by the normans as a food source and thus some escaped to the wild and thrived there.

Just another bunch of fools let a foreign animal loose basically - that cant seem to be any good when there not designed for our eco system. Just like the signal crayfish, false scorpion, etc

 

[Lurch]

It wouldn't be the first time Adam Hart Davis has stated something based on very shaky premises as absolute fact. It's a shame really, as I really like his programs.

Particularly that business about tax not being taxing.
Grrr.