Are hootchies big enough? really?

[wentworth]

Hi all,
When I first strarted doing walks with a friend, we each carried a hootchie and clipped them together at night. Suprisingly enough we never encountered rain when we were out!
Since then I've used an 8x10 silnylon tarp which has been huge and very good in the rain.
To get to the point, I was digging through all my gear and found my old hootchie. I decided to set it up as a one person shelter- It looked really small and cramped.
Hootchies seem to be the shelter of choice on these boards, so I was wondering whether people find them big enough in heavy rain? And if so, how do you pitch them- high for ventilation? One end close to the ground?
I know some of you use them with bivi bags, so the question is aimed mainly at those who use just the hootchie! (but feel free anyone else to enlighten me)

 

[Great Pebble]

As close to the ground as I can fit under, bivvi bag or not.

 

[Gary]

The hootchi can be set up main different ways, as a simple roof about chest height most of the time, or a a lean too trapping heat from the fire or acting as a wind block. One side can be dropped or one corner can be lower to funnel off rain water for collection. On courses (where I have a vehicle) I often take a camp bed too!

As for size I think they're spot on, of course I could carry something bigger called a tent but that defeats the objects.

 

[zambezi]

I'm not convinced that the hootchie is the best way to go when travelling light in Europe. If, in addition to the hootchie, you are also lugging a bivi then there are a few tents that offer more protection from the elements for the same or even less weight.

If travelling solo, the Kimmlite comes in under 1kg, and if travelling with a partner you might look at GoLite's Den or Hilleberg's Nallo both of which come in at under 2kg.

I can appreciate that the hootchie combination grants a more immediate intimacy with nature, but I am not in a position to appreciate this when I am asleep.

 

[Moonraker]

I'm not convinced that the hootchie is the best way to go when travelling light in Europe. If, in addition to the hootchie, you are also lugging a bivi then there are a few tents that offer more protection from the elements for the same or even less weight.

If travelling solo, the Kimmlite comes in under 1kg, and if travelling with a partner you might look at GoLite's Den or Hilleberg's Nallo both of which come in at under 2kg.

I can appreciate that the hootchie combination grants a more immediate intimacy with nature, but I am not in a position to appreciate this when I am asleep.

The problem with these options is:

1) Cost. All of those are at least 3 times the cost of a Hoochie (other tarps options are cheaper still). Even with a bivvy bag a tarp is a lot cheaper.

2) Durability. not as durable and able to withstand hard use and are less versatile.

3) Flexibility. the beauty of a tarp like a Hoochie is just how many uses you can put it.

Personally I don't want to carry anything I will be afraid to damage because of the cost unless the equipment was essential and it should offer as many options to me as possible. Weight is important but not the only consideration.

 

[Squidders]

In my opinion yes. hootchies are big enough. really.

 

[Tvividr]

Bivitents and tents for 2 people is just not worth carrying IMO. I prefer a hootchie and a Fjellduken. I'm getting a new model Fjellduken in january which is even more versatile than any of the other models - review will come in february ):

 

[zambezi]

I note Moonraker's observations. I would suggest that the materials that make up the tents I have suggested could be pressed into the same versatile service that the tarp offers. That said, I agree that you are unlikely to use a £250 Hilleberg for coracle training excercise.

However, most planned trips will not require the impromptu fashioning of of a boat or rain collector or ....

So, my feeling is take a tarp on training excercises, and be prepared to press your expensive tent into service if an unplanned survival event transpires.

 

[giancarlo]

I think it depends on what hootchi you have in some instances.
My friend has a cheap one he bought, but it was considerably shorter that mine (SASS one).
He couldn't be sheltered comfortably under it on his own, we usually use mine as a main shelter and his as a bit extra since it's sleeping 2.

Since we put them high for the hammocks, that's a problem, i'm sure if it was low and pitched a-frame style, he'd be ok.

Although, if you're hammock camping, what other alternative do you use apart from a hootchi?

 

[zambezi]

I guess if you are commited to using a hammock, then the options for the shelter are much reduced.

My premise was that, if you are starting with a clean sheet, then there are tents that deliver better shelter [for the European environment] than tarp+bivi combinations of same or greater weight.

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

The question is better phrased "big enough for what?" Survival movies always show people huddled up or in the fetal position. Thats great for creating pathos but not for reality. A fully resting body is a stretched out body. All this contortionism produces cramped muscles and poor circulation. So a minimal shelter must give rain,wind and sun protection from your pinky to your nose. Ever observe an inexperienced hiker's wardrobe? I've seen people in arctic parkas, balaclavas and mittens. Look down, and the stylish stonewashed blue of denim and a glorified tennis shoe passing for hiking footwear are often observed. Almost as silly are ultralight hikers with 3/4 or even 1/2 length sleeping pads. All these truisms about putting a hat on when your cold and these % charts of heat loss impart a very subtle prejudice of protection. It's our legs that do most of the day's work. A G.I. poncho barely meets my minimal needs. My 9'x9' tarp is more versatile and can protect 2 people. These are daily carry items in my daypack. Tents by their nature demand more prescience to a future adventure.

 

[zambezi]

"Tents by their nature demand more prescience to a future adventure."

I wholeheartedly agree with Chris on this point. I would not take a tent optimised for the African savannah into European alpine environs. A good foreknowledge of the anticipated terrain and weather for a given trip are essential when selecting a tent.

A tarp of the dimensions you quote will always offer more more configuration permutations than a tent selected for a purpose, because by definition it is ....."a blank canvas"! [boom boom]

I have done some alpine trekking in Europe. I have never regretted taking my Nallo as my shelter. It is erected quickly, impervious to howling winds and driving rain/sleet and very durable.

However, I suspect that nothing other than a hammock and hootchie combo would be viable in a rainforest. Horses for courses I guess...

 

[woodrat]

o.k. heres the obvious ignorance of a yank on display, define "hootchie"

 

[Ed]

o.k. heres the obvious ignorance of a yank on display, define "hootchie"

Its a waterproof sheet with attachment points on it so it can be put up in different ways.

Ed

 

[tomtom]

curtusy of thailand3654

hootchis are those two shealters you see there, otherwise known as bashas (or tarps in the US)

 

[bambodoggy]

"Tents by their nature demand more prescience to a future adventure."
I wholeheartedly agree with Chris on this point. I would not take a tent optimised for the African savannah into European alpine environs. A good foreknowledge of the anticipated terrain and weather for a given trip are essential when selecting a tent.

Bit cheeky to quote from the above as Zam's knows what he's talking about but it strikes me that this very statement indicates the use of different tents for different places.....and having already discussed the topic of tent costs....this statement says to me that I can use my cheap basha sheet anywhere in the world and customise them in situ wherever I happen to be....from the desert to the jungle to the arctic and everywhere in between....
I also understand what's been said about tarps for training and tents for trips and this does make sence but I prefer to train with exactly what I will have with me when I'm off and about....there's less suprises then.

I find the British Army Basha is fine in size for one person and for an emergency can even take two very snugly... ack:

 

[Adi]

Don’t worry Woodrat, I have been using a British Army Poncho since the age of 8, I’m 33 now. I have always known it as a Basha and have never heard of the term Hootchis, to be honest I thought it was a yank term, it has been nicked for some were, probably from Ray Mears, like so many other things on here but then I am new to doing bushcraft on the net.

One point I would like to make, looking at everyone’s photos of the bashas I am surprised how high you all set them, most look as if they are at waste height. Ok I can see that that would be an advantage to sit under during the day but offering very little shelter during the night. I would suggest at night drop them down to knee height.

The British Army poncho was designed on the cape/ground sheet, a cape that can be buttoned to another to build a two man ridge shelter or used as a ground sheet in a larger tent. The 58 pattern poncho follows this concept but can also buttoned into a tube to use with the 58 pattern sleeping bag as a primitive bivi bag and a water proof cape. It was also designed as a two man shelter, the idea that the other mans poncho was used as a ground sheet. As a two man shelter although a bit cramped it dose make a very warm shelter.

 

[Bob Hurley]

have never heard of the term Hootchis, to be honest I thought it was a yank term,

"Hootchie" is indeed an American slang term, I believe in British English you use the word "slattern" to mean the same thing. It can also have the same meaning as the Anglo-Saxon word for "sheath".

Imagine our amusement on seeing the title of this thread. Of course we clicked on it.

 

[jakunen]

The hootchi can be set up main different ways, as a simple roof about chest height most of the time, or a a lean too trapping heat from the fire or acting as a wind block. One side can be dropped or one corner can be lower to funnel off rain water for collection. On courses (where I have a vehicle) I often take a camp bed too!

As for size I think they're spot on, of course I could carry something bigger called a tent but that defeats the objects.

Why does this b****r always beat me to it?:roll: Light, versatile, perfect size.

Oi Whale! Stop picking my brain! There's little enough left...