ANOTHER poll
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I voted for the 'I can do without all the trappings' but it usually means i'm slapping my own forehead after realising i've forgotten something!
Poor admin!
I remeber on exercise a long time ago, one guy forgot his sleeping bag and ended up wrapping himself in wet hessian from one of the vehicle cam kit's stored on a Bedford MJ roof! I'm not saying he was stupid, just dumb enough not to recognise the signs of Hypothermia! What ever happened to Briggy.............?:11doh:
Poor admin!I remeber on exercise a long time ago, one guy forgot his sleeping bag and ended up wrapping himself in wet hessian from one of the vehicle cam kit's stored on a Bedford MJ roof! I'm not saying he was stupid, just dumb enough not to recognise the signs of Hypothermia! What ever happened to Briggy.............?:11doh:
Carry less. I thought that this was one of the ideas behind bushcraft ("Oh no! he's trying to put a label on it, again! get the pitchforks!").
I can't really understand what people are hauling around in their 120 litres packs (I'm well aware that PLCE litres don't correspond so well to a SI liter), if they're not of to 14-30 days expeditions that is. And honestly, what the h3ll did I carry in a 100 liter frame pack?
Any way, as long as I don't have to carry it, each pack to his own
I can't really understand what people are hauling around in their 120 litres packs (I'm well aware that PLCE litres don't correspond so well to a SI liter), if they're not of to 14-30 days expeditions that is. And honestly, what the h3ll did I carry in a 100 liter frame pack?
Any way, as long as I don't have to carry it, each pack to his own
I carry all sorts when I go to meets, I can try different stuff out and show off bits of kit. Some good plans can be greatly improved by drinking 3/4 of a bottle of stags breath and talking crap around a fire in the woods with other people!
I'm like Spamel, I carry different bits of kit to have a go with too, oh and yes my army issue sleeping bag takes up half the bergen!
Also, I direct you towards my signature line, this is how my daughter qualifies as the best bushcrafter in the world, she doesn't even carry herself but gets others to carry her aswell!
Ok... this was a pretty direct question I thought...
I was not asking what you actually do... I take loads of little luxuries out with me and i'm not trying to define bushcraft.
I'm merely trying to get to the bottom of everyones feeling on the statement in the question.
For me personally it's the 3rd option as it's all about missing kit... if I lost my pack down some rapids at night I want my knowledge to get me out of the situation after I have lost my items... not after I have lost the weight off my back or the size off my back. If it was about reducing size or weight the emergency situation would be that my pack has suddenly grown and got heavy would it not?
I asked the question because of late, people have been very concerned about how small the pack they carry is or how heavy it is... this has also created a more-bushcraftier-than-thou trend that one should comply to or be rooted out as non-bushcrafty
I was wondering how it fitted in to the quote "carry less by knowing more" many people put so much stock in.
I was not asking what you actually do... I take loads of little luxuries out with me and i'm not trying to define bushcraft.
I'm merely trying to get to the bottom of everyones feeling on the statement in the question.
For me personally it's the 3rd option as it's all about missing kit... if I lost my pack down some rapids at night I want my knowledge to get me out of the situation after I have lost my items... not after I have lost the weight off my back or the size off my back. If it was about reducing size or weight the emergency situation would be that my pack has suddenly grown and got heavy would it not?
I asked the question because of late, people have been very concerned about how small the pack they carry is or how heavy it is... this has also created a more-bushcraftier-than-thou trend that one should comply to or be rooted out as non-bushcrafty
I was wondering how it fitted in to the quote "carry less by knowing more" many people put so much stock in.
I carry what makes me comfortable. If it is over distance, I need to chop the weight down, or I'll be uncomfortable carrying it. Some people go light, and as long as they enjoy themselves then good luck to them. Have you seen Wayland turning up at Delamere? Even the tractor sweats pulling his trailer full of gear! But do you think he spends the weekend uncomfortable? Not a bit of it. Again, a lot of his kit comprises of projects on the go, when I first met him he was adding leather side straps to his bergen for his camera tripod. Last Meet he was making a net.
People take things to make their time more enjoyable and I don't see a problem with it. If people started to get big headed about going light, I'd probably give them a ribbing! So far, I don't think it has happened. Think how much weight you could shave off by only using one pair of underpants. You wear them on day one normally, day two reverse them, day three normal way but inside out day four inside out reversed. By that time, the original stains have dried out and you can start all over again. One pair of pants, lasts a lifetime, no need for spares!
But do you think he spends the weekend uncomfortable? Not a bit of it. Again, a lot of his kit comprises of projects on the go, when I first met him he was adding leather side straps to his bergen for his camera tripod. Last Meet he was making a net.People take things to make their time more enjoyable and I don't see a problem with it. If people started to get big headed about going light, I'd probably give them a ribbing! So far, I don't think it has happened. Think how much weight you could shave off by only using one pair of underpants. You wear them on day one normally, day two reverse them, day three normal way but inside out day four inside out reversed. By that time, the original stains have dried out and you can start all over again. One pair of pants, lasts a lifetime, no need for spares!
It would have been nice to see a 'I carry what I need to be comfortable, regardless of weight'
My lightweight kit is far more than a lot of ultra light campers, but to be honest, if the only option open to me was sleeping under a tarp and eating noodles, drinking nettle or pine needle tea out of an army mug etc, then I would not leave home. Little things like a radio/MP3 player are now an essential part of my kit and camping experience
My lightweight kit is far more than a lot of ultra light campers, but to be honest, if the only option open to me was sleeping under a tarp and eating noodles, drinking nettle or pine needle tea out of an army mug etc, then I would not leave home. Little things like a radio/MP3 player are now an essential part of my kit and camping experience
For me - option 3. Every time I go out it's a compromise between comfort, goals and weight. And of course the 'knowledge weighs nothing' (even if scientifically a tad inaccurate) is a big part of that.
Interestingly, to me anyway, is that I find my kit now seems to be getting more and more heavy. I went from stereotypical 'brit camper' alpinist a few years back (i.e. kitchen sink and a spare in case the 1st one blocked), to ultra lightweight (expensive and generally too uncomfortable for me) to now a kind of compromise between the two. Taking more 'bushcraft' kit such as saws and billies, in addition to the more standard camping kit, have increased item numbers and weight also... on the whole I find them very worthwhile though.
Each to find their own balance I guess!
Interestingly, to me anyway, is that I find my kit now seems to be getting more and more heavy. I went from stereotypical 'brit camper' alpinist a few years back (i.e. kitchen sink and a spare in case the 1st one blocked), to ultra lightweight (expensive and generally too uncomfortable for me) to now a kind of compromise between the two. Taking more 'bushcraft' kit such as saws and billies, in addition to the more standard camping kit, have increased item numbers and weight also... on the whole I find them very worthwhile though.
Each to find their own balance I guess!
I believe that you take what you want, if you'll use it. But remember why your going. I go to enjoy myself , not to test myself !
Well, I guess I'm in #3 - of the available choices.
But most of my hiking/camping is historically based. So I carry what we can find in the journals and records of people of the time when they were "running the woods".
So, for 1750's French and Indian War period, the military records show issued equipment. Ditto 1770's Rev War. You carry what the common soldier was issued.
Even the voyageurs in Nouvelle France in the late 1700's were pretty restricted in the gear they had or could carry along. Just like a sailor on ship, you only had so much space or weight for "personal" gear. And the rest was issued to you by the Fur Trading company.
So, in general, my gear is much more simple/basic to begin with. The rest is in the knowledge you have, and how you put it into practice.
Just my humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.
Mikey - out in the Hinterlands of Les Pays Den Haut of Nouvelle France
But most of my hiking/camping is historically based. So I carry what we can find in the journals and records of people of the time when they were "running the woods".
So, for 1750's French and Indian War period, the military records show issued equipment. Ditto 1770's Rev War. You carry what the common soldier was issued.
Even the voyageurs in Nouvelle France in the late 1700's were pretty restricted in the gear they had or could carry along. Just like a sailor on ship, you only had so much space or weight for "personal" gear. And the rest was issued to you by the Fur Trading company.
So, in general, my gear is much more simple/basic to begin with. The rest is in the knowledge you have, and how you put it into practice.
Just my humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.
Mikey - out in the Hinterlands of Les Pays Den Haut of Nouvelle France
Sorry folks, I still wasn't asking anything other than what the statement means to you... I didn't ask what you do when you're out or how you bushcraft, travel or camp.
I was just after an answer to the question.
I was just after an answer to the question.
I carry 120 l plce pack because i can. Its full to the brim every time but I am choosing lighter kit all the time. I long for the days when I could back pack with around a 25 l daypack but unfortunatly for me those days are long gone lol.
I think it means what it says, "carry less."
I am using a cup of tea as an example.
You go out for an hour or two you can carry a flask, quite heavy and bulky but quick and easy.Anybody can just pour a brew!
You go out for a day or two, you carry the means to make a brew, a flask will not last long enough. This means, water, pan, stove, fuel, cup, and teabags etc. Most people can boil water and make a brew.
More than a couple of days, you wouldn't be able to carry enough water so you carry the , knowledge to find and purify water and (for example) a millbank bag, plus pan, stove, fuel,cup and teaabags etc. The weight of the purifying kit(and knowledge) is less than the weight of the water you would carry for a day. A lot of people could find water and make it potable.
A couple of weeks and carrying enough fuel becomes an issue, so you carry the knowledge to find fuel and prepare a fire, so now we lose the fuel we would carry and probably the stove. Not everyone( thinking general population rather than bushcrafters) has the knowledge to make a safe and efficient fire.
Extend this further and your lighter runs out, knowledge of primitive fire takes over, you run out of teabags and you start using your knowledge of flora to make nettle or pine tea.
So the more knowledge you have the less you need to carry.
But I carry what will make my stay most comfortable taking all things into account including the time frame and the environment, this usually means the back of my car is full, but I guess I would trim down if I was walking the applachian trail, I would carry less and spend more time finding and improvising what I need along the way, I do have (some) of the knowledge but not always the incentive!
I am using a cup of tea as an example.
You go out for an hour or two you can carry a flask, quite heavy and bulky but quick and easy.Anybody can just pour a brew!
You go out for a day or two, you carry the means to make a brew, a flask will not last long enough. This means, water, pan, stove, fuel, cup, and teabags etc. Most people can boil water and make a brew.
More than a couple of days, you wouldn't be able to carry enough water so you carry the , knowledge to find and purify water and (for example) a millbank bag, plus pan, stove, fuel,cup and teaabags etc. The weight of the purifying kit(and knowledge) is less than the weight of the water you would carry for a day. A lot of people could find water and make it potable.
A couple of weeks and carrying enough fuel becomes an issue, so you carry the knowledge to find fuel and prepare a fire, so now we lose the fuel we would carry and probably the stove. Not everyone( thinking general population rather than bushcrafters) has the knowledge to make a safe and efficient fire.
Extend this further and your lighter runs out, knowledge of primitive fire takes over, you run out of teabags and you start using your knowledge of flora to make nettle or pine tea.
So the more knowledge you have the less you need to carry.
But I carry what will make my stay most comfortable taking all things into account including the time frame and the environment, this usually means the back of my car is full, but I guess I would trim down if I was walking the applachian trail, I would carry less and spend more time finding and improvising what I need along the way, I do have (some) of the knowledge but not always the incentive!
folks, I still wasn't asking anything other than what the statement means to you... I didn't ask what you do when you're out or how you bushcraft, travel or camp.
I was just after an answer to the question.
I don't see why you are getting upset. You didn't ask a specific question in the first place, it was more a statement. In the end, it is a phrase a bloke said on the telly that wouldn't be of any interest to anyone if it was said by Bear Grylls.
Let's not keep trying to pigeon hole bushcraft, it always ends in a fight and slanging match.
Scots_Charles_River
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
When I canoe camp I always take toooooo much.
Why ? because there is sooo much room.
Hillwalking/Climbing you are carrying it all the way so we always limit.
Nick
Why ? because there is sooo much room.
Hillwalking/Climbing you are carrying it all the way so we always limit.
Nick
If it's on my back it's all about dropping weight, mostly by leaving frivalrious items behind or risking the lightest of the sleeping bags (the marathon bag with 2 feathers per baffle).
In a canoe its just leaving a slab of beers behind and taking a bottle of the hard stuff instead
In a canoe its just leaving a slab of beers behind and taking a bottle of the hard stuff instead
I have to say all of the above When i remove more items of kit ie swapping a gas stove and a million pots pans and cups for a home made cup and a tatonka billy the kit gets lighter. But as scots said if im in the canoe and not doing to many miles or a short walk through a wood to a camp i allow a lot more, infact tonnnes of the stuff
If im off up a hill or doing lot of walking theres no chance i would carry half the gear i carry normally. I guess its all situation dependent.....
When i remove more items of kit ie swapping a gas stove and a million pots pans and cups for a home made cup and a tatonka billy the kit gets lighter. But as scots said if im in the canoe and not doing to many miles or a short walk through a wood to a camp i allow a lot more, infact tonnnes of the stuff If im off up a hill or doing lot of walking theres no chance i would carry half the gear i carry normally. I guess its all situation dependent.....
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