American slipjoints- Case Stockman etc

[Danzo]

Interesting that Nessmuk and Rustrum advocate a folding knife in addition to the belt knife and axe, whereas Ray Mears asserts that 'in Bushcraft folding knives are virtually useless'. Ray also advocates a thicker belt knife which I would have thought makes the need for a folder even greater.

Is that perhaps a function of the word 'bushcraft' being too indiscriminate? My 1911 American Boy Scout Manual draws a clear distinction between 'woodcraft' (the stuff you do on the trail and in the wood before camp) and 'campcraft' which are the in-camp activities. I think Nessmuk would have been part of this tradition.

You would use your fixed blade and axe on the trail and to build camp, and your folder for things around camp like food prep, mending, whittling for amusement etc.

Danzo

 

[Hoodoo]

Here's some shots for length comparisons:
Top down:
Cold Steel large stockman
Old Timer large stockman
Queen extra large stockman (called the Cattle King)
Two Case trappers
Cold Steel trapper

Top down:
Older Winchester Moose - very large knife similar to what Nessmuk carried
Older Case split back whittler - very large knife
Case Brothers whittler - if I was going to buy a Case, I'd look into the Case Brothers line. The older Case Brothers are pricey but very nice.

 

[Hoodoo]

Interesting that Nessmuk and Rustrum advocate a folding knife in addition to the belt knife and axe, whereas Ray Mears asserts that 'in Bushcraft folding knives are virtually useless'. Ray also advocates a thicker belt knife which I would have thought makes the need for a folder even greater.

That's why you shouldn't believe everything you read. The thing to do is just go out there and use your knives and see what works for you given the type of outdoor activity you pursue. There is no one perfect combination of knives and cutting tools for every outdoor situation.

 

[Doc]

Nice kit, Hoodoo. Especially the Queen Cattle king.

Of course, you are right about not believing all you read. Much of it is contradictory anyway...

Popular does not always mean good either. It is actually quite hard to buy a non stainless knife in a shop these days, but that doesn't mean carbon is no good.

 

[Leon]

Does anyone have any experience with Kissing Crane knives made to similar patterns as those already mentioned in this thread?
I saw some at knifecenter and liked this one in particular:
http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=UCKC1442
I was especially attracted by the spec: Blade Material: Solingen high carbon steel (non-stainless)
On close inspection of the picture however, I noticed 'Rostfrei' inscribed on the blades, which I have always understood to mean stainless.
Have I missed something or is this sloppy advertising

 

[Bob Hurley]

Does anyone have any experience with Kissing Crane knives made to similar patterns as those already mentioned in this thread?

I've owned a good handful of them over the years. Generally, they aren't nearly as stoutly constructed as the Schrade, Case, and Buck knives, but the carbon versions have very good blade steel. If you like their offerings and want a Solingen steel knife, I'd suggest you look for its twin in the "Eye" brand, as they tend to be more robustly made. There are exceptions, and now and then you get a particularly well-made Kissing Crane that's a real keeper. The gem of the current K.C. lot is, to me, the Sodbuster/Brown Mule, but they have brass pivot pins that will need to be tapped tighter over time.

Just my 2p

 

[Hoodoo]

You Brits have access to some really excellent slipjoints made by Trevor Ablett. They are traditional all the way, have top quality carbon steel, hand made, and have some pretty strong backsprings. They are among my favorite slippies and incredibly bargain priced imo.

Littlemesters

 

[Hellz]

Well I'm inspired

I've ordered an Case Amber Bone Canoe. Then I orderd a yellow handled Case Mini Trapper...

I've got my eye on something a bit special too

Those Trevor Ablett's look nice too, I like some of the Eye Witness stuff as well.

I'm doomed

 

[Hoodoo]

Well, slipjoints have been around for a long, long time for a good reason. They work so well. When I was a kid growing up on a farm, everyone carried a slipjoint in their pocket. They were sold at every hardware and feedstore. Then the Buck 110 came along and that became the dominant knife of choice for both hunting and utility. When I worked as a mechanic, I'd say 30 or 40% of the guys had a Buck 110 on their hip. Personally, I usually kept a Schrade stockman in my toolbox and a SAK in my pocket. Big folders were reserved for hunting. Then along came the lighter, tactical folding knives, with Spyderco and Benchmade leading the charge in the production arena. Now you could carry a fairly large knife in your pocket and it did not seem all that heavy and uncomfortable. And one-handed opening was just plain cool. But now I find more and more folks are "rediscovering" slip joints. Good tools will always have an audience imo. However, the one slip joint I always come back to is the SAK. For the price, I've yet to find better quality out there. I probably own 40 or more Victorinox SAKs and I always marvel at their quality control. I have yet to buy a bad one. True, they are not as pretty as the bone handled traditional trappers and stockmen out there, but they are light in the pocket, have lots of options for extra blades/tools, are easy to sharpen and take a razor edge, and just keep on ticking.

So, my number one slipjoint is still a good ol' SAK.

 

[Marts]

The Trevor Ablett's do look good.

Did you see the Stan Shaw Pearl they have available as well. If only....

 

[JimH]

Well I'm inspired

Those Trevor Ablett's look nice too, I like some of the Eye Witness stuff as well.

I'm doomed

I've used Eye Witness for years - me Dad got me my first when I was about 9, I think. I've rediscovered them lately as my Opinel habit is illegal...

The sort-of-antler texture black plastic handled range are cheap and sturdy, if a tad fugly

Finish quality not superlative, but the price tag of around a tenner does it for me. They do a cracking "Tackler's knife" - single 3" Ettrick blade which is a long time fave, and I have a sheepfoot/pen combi as current EDC.

A Yorkshire knife for Yorkshire folk - cheap, unfussy and effective.

Jim.

 

[Hoodoo]

A Yorkshire knife for Yorkshire folk - cheap, unfussy and effective.

Jim.

Excellent! I think you also have summed up the appeal here in the states by a lot of folks of the Schrade Old Timer line. I was truly saddened to see them go. I think the cold steel line is a worthy replacement though. With carbon V, the steel is better than 1095 imo, but they cost more too. The black scales don't have a lot of character either but then folks got pretty used to the brown delrin of the Old Timers. I hope cold steel continues to expand their line. I know they were going to bring out a large liner lock folder like the old Schrades but I heard that was cancelled.

 

[Andy]

Taylor eye witness make some very nice knives!!! for a lower budget A.Wright wont set you back as much.

one of my favorits has a bit of work done on it

Of course I might carry the taylors knife if it wouldnc't cost £230 to replace

 

[Doc]

Loads of useful info here.
The Buck 110 is quite a classic and were it not for the UK legal situation (lockback= fixed blade and only allowable with good reason) I'd be most tempted to get one. When out in the woods with a rucksack full of camping gear good reason is pretty well guarunteed but in those situations I'd have the Woodlore and so no need of a 110.

Should really get a Sheffield folder sometime. My grandad/great-grandad/great-great grandad were coalminers from Sheffield so it's kind of local to me.

Agree with Hoodoo on te Swiss Army knives - they could probably charge three times as much and still sell them. I don't know what sort of stainless they're made from but I don't fnd them as good for wood carving as a carbon steel opinel. SAK's are unlikely to break but I sometimes think the springs could be stronger - they close easily.

I think Alan Wood used to make a UK legal folder called the Peasant. Probably not cheap!

Looking forward to the Schrade Old Timer arriving and hope Hellz likes the Cases.

What do folk think of Camilus slipjoints? They are an old company with a long history of supplying knives to the army (US and British) but I think recent models are all stainless?

 

[Hoodoo]

What do folk think of Camilus slipjoints? They are an old company with a long history of supplying knives to the army (US and British) but I think recent models are all stainless?

Well...I can't say much about Camillus slipjoints other than the usual rumors, i.e., you'd be VERY SURPRISED to discover who all they make knives for. They are one big knifemaking company and have been making knives for others for eons. So while a knife you might purchase has one name on it, the real maker just might be Camillus.

They do make a line of slipjoints but the carbon steel they use is something of a secret. Camillus says 1095, but rumor has it that it's Carbon V on some. The scales on my carbon Camillus stockman are BUTT ugly but other than that, it's a good one. Maybe someday I'll have the scales replaced.

Here's a photo comparing my cs stockman to my camillus stockman.

Edited to add: I forgot to mention that Camillus does have a traditional line of carbon folders out there but I forget what they call them. The one above is an example. I also have a boy scout whittler that is carbon and also made by camillus. Or at least, it used to be carbon. It actually has fairly attractive jigged delrin scales.

 

[Andy]

victorinox use 425m stainless steel.

 

[Doc]

Thanks for that.

There is a FAQ on steels at: http://knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html

They do not rate the 425m stainless very highly! Also a bit lukewarm on the D2 used by Queen.

Having said that, I have yet to break a SAK but did once break a Japanese Seki made lockback made of 440c stainless, which is apparently a good stainless steel. I still prefer carbon steel like on the Opinel. Wonder what that is? 1095?

Hoodoo - thanks for the info on Camillus. You've had a chance to try a lot of traditional slipjoints - what's you're favourite?

I've also seen Japanese made Browning stockman slipjoints. I have a Japanese made Browning shotgun and the quality is very high. If the folders are of similar standard it would be a good option.

 

[Danzo]

Hoodoo, those side by side pictures..........you surely wouldn't be hinting who Camillus might just make knives for, would you?



Danzo

 

[Hoodoo]

Hoodoo - thanks for the info on Camillus. You've had a chance to try a lot of traditional slipjoints - what's you're favourite?

Well, I have a couple sentimental favorites.

This Keen Kutter Stockman has been in my family for 3 generations.

This Camillus electrician's knife was given to me by a woman I used to do handiman work for back in my "wandering" days. She was retired and it had belonged to her father. I used it hard for several years back when I was a mechanic and finally retired it to the drawer. Fortunately, I never broke the bone scales.

Neither of these knives would cost you a lot if you bought them on the market today. The Keen Kutter in similar shape might run over $100, I dunno. The Camillus in similar shape might run about the same. To me, they are priceless.

 

[Hoodoo]

Hoodoo, those side by side pictures..........you surely wouldn't be hinting who Camillus might just make knives for, would you?



Danzo

Now Danzo, would I do something that sneaky?