A moose in the glen
- Thread starter jojo
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, We're having our annual Winter Moot and we'd love you to come. PLEASE LOOK HERE to secure your place and get more information.
For forum threads CLICK HERE
excately what i was thinking Angus, i dont really think htye thought through the full impact of re-introducing these animals back into british woodlands would implicate. when they reintroduced deer to some britiohs woodlands thye found only later how damaging the deer were to the few wooded areas we had left. With extra predetors introduce i would wonder how the already endangered birds of prey would survive.
That's just the point, he has considered the woodland in the first place and for this reason he first introduced boar as they work as biological rotovators. As I said in the post above he has a lot more people advising him who are far more qualified than many if not all the members on here.
The moose feed on different things to normal deer so there will not be competition between them for food. At the same time removing or reducing the number of deer will allow the wooded areas to start growing again, as the areas will already have been dug up by the boar allowing saplings and the like to break through the heather.
From what I saw he was addressing the ecological balance very well because he was taking the advice that he needed to take.
The present Highland ecosystem is already badly degraded by overgrazing of deer. It needs balance, the predators will bring that. In Yellowstone Park the aspen woodland only started regenerating with the introduction of a healthy wolf population. Kept the deer numbers down and frightened them away from woodland fringes into open areas I think. I walked through bits of Denali wilderness (Alaska) area with my kids and saw wolves and grizzly bears at close quarters while on foot. As far as I am aware no one has ever been killed by a bear of wolf in Denali.
This guy has vision its sad he doesn't have the support or land resources to make a real experiment of it. As to walkers/bushcrafters I think a great contribution would to stear clear and give him a fair chance. There are many more interesting bits of the Highlands to wander.
This guy has vision its sad he doesn't have the support or land resources to make a real experiment of it. As to walkers/bushcrafters I think a great contribution would to stear clear and give him a fair chance. There are many more interesting bits of the Highlands to wander.
Hope I don't meet up with this one.
>> https://www.rapidmedia.com/onlineissues/canoe/v6i4/pdf/48.pdf
>> https://www.rapidmedia.com/onlineissues/canoe/v6i4/pdf/48.pdf
That was brilliant
Good on him, or as one of the local lads said "Bring it on".
I'm all for it.
The access issues are huffing and puffing. Don't blame the folk who worked on the new laws:notworthy for wanting to stand up for them but this isn't some celeb shutting off an estate because they feel a bit insecure, it's land management.
In time everyone will appreciate it. Fencing is nothing new, ok, you can't have big styles like deer fencing but if he gets enough business(and it probably has to be a business venture, just as the neighbouring estates are business ventures) the visitors will be as happy for the parking areas and facilities as the locals are to watch the regeneration.
At least he's younger than his neighbours, who knows what opinions their kids may have down the line.
Not wishing any malice on the lairds, just saying.....
Loved that he calls calves "babies", that's sweet.
Thanks for the iplayer link andye
Good on him, or as one of the local lads said "Bring it on".
I'm all for it.
The access issues are huffing and puffing. Don't blame the folk who worked on the new laws:notworthy for wanting to stand up for them but this isn't some celeb shutting off an estate because they feel a bit insecure, it's land management.
In time everyone will appreciate it. Fencing is nothing new, ok, you can't have big styles like deer fencing but if he gets enough business(and it probably has to be a business venture, just as the neighbouring estates are business ventures) the visitors will be as happy for the parking areas and facilities as the locals are to watch the regeneration.
At least he's younger than his neighbours, who knows what opinions their kids may have down the line.
Not wishing any malice on the lairds, just saying.....
Loved that he calls calves "babies", that's sweet.
Thanks for the iplayer link andye
Here in the UK we have no wilderness even in the highlands the imprint of man is present the lynx, bear and wolf have gone, and the wildcat is struggling. The deer forests are mostly treeless heather, with small pockets of the Scots pine that once covered much of the highlands.
So it is encouraging that there is talk of re-wilding restoring wilderness. Of course it is a can of worms. You cannot restore the wilderness as it was in Devonian times (underwater for much of central Scotland) or as it was in the ice age (buried under glaciers). Bur neither can you reintroduce just one species, like the wolf. Everything is connected.
They say that the true mark of greatness is an old man planting trees he knows he will never live long enough to sit under their shade. So it is with re-wilding. We need to think long term. If we get this right our great great grandchildren might well thank us.
A very large area is needed. Even better, several large areas, connected by corridors among which animals can move freely.
Reintroducing the beaver has caused terrific objections, so you can imagine the difficulties with the highly emotive big bad wolf. In practice, I think we will reintroduce the lynx before the wolf as it does not carry the emotional burden.
Perhaps I am unrealistic (and you should remember my professional training is in medicine, not ecology) but I would love to see wilderness re-established in some of the highlands. Instead of, say, 50 000 acres, we should be thinking square miles perhaps 1000 square miles would be easily self-sustainable of re-established Caledonian Forest with large herbivores and large predators (certainly wolf, wildcat and lynx, and I personally have no problems with bears too) and no roads, no over-flying and no mechanised access. It might take a century or more to re-establish, and will only happen if people want it. But when you think of our deep need for wild, unbroken country, I believe it is worth it.
A small fenced off area, with only some of the ecosystems species, and only open to paying guests, is not re-establishing wilderness. It is opening a safari park. But I recognise it could lead on to better things, and at least the laird concerned has vision.
So it is encouraging that there is talk of re-wilding restoring wilderness. Of course it is a can of worms. You cannot restore the wilderness as it was in Devonian times (underwater for much of central Scotland) or as it was in the ice age (buried under glaciers). Bur neither can you reintroduce just one species, like the wolf. Everything is connected.
They say that the true mark of greatness is an old man planting trees he knows he will never live long enough to sit under their shade. So it is with re-wilding. We need to think long term. If we get this right our great great grandchildren might well thank us.
A very large area is needed. Even better, several large areas, connected by corridors among which animals can move freely.
Reintroducing the beaver has caused terrific objections, so you can imagine the difficulties with the highly emotive big bad wolf. In practice, I think we will reintroduce the lynx before the wolf as it does not carry the emotional burden.
Perhaps I am unrealistic (and you should remember my professional training is in medicine, not ecology) but I would love to see wilderness re-established in some of the highlands. Instead of, say, 50 000 acres, we should be thinking square miles perhaps 1000 square miles would be easily self-sustainable of re-established Caledonian Forest with large herbivores and large predators (certainly wolf, wildcat and lynx, and I personally have no problems with bears too) and no roads, no over-flying and no mechanised access. It might take a century or more to re-establish, and will only happen if people want it. But when you think of our deep need for wild, unbroken country, I believe it is worth it.
A small fenced off area, with only some of the ecosystems species, and only open to paying guests, is not re-establishing wilderness. It is opening a safari park. But I recognise it could lead on to better things, and at least the laird concerned has vision.
I found it an interesting 40 mins and sparked alot on internal debate in my own head. Well, I was sitting in a hotel in Leeds alone at the time trying to prepare a powerpoint for the morning!
I applaud the guy for trying and putting his money where his mouth is. One thought that has stuck in my head is that the Highlands 300 years ago was heavily populated with people, Does he intend to reintroduce a breeding pair?
Miggers
I applaud the guy for trying and putting his money where his mouth is. One thought that has stuck in my head is that the Highlands 300 years ago was heavily populated with people, Does he intend to reintroduce a breeding pair?
Miggers
This a really good point Miggers has made and its linked to the bigger argument of who owns our wilderness. The highlands were a very different place before the clearances, the ecology was managed by local people who had a vested interest as it was subsistence living. With the people driven off the land, the Caledonian forest removed and non native breeds of sheep introduced for profit, we were left with a barren landscape.
When it comes to land ownership in Scotland my feet are firmly in the, all property is theft, camp. If he wants to be philanthropic give his land back to the people.
An other strand to this is the reporting this week that beavers have been illegally released into the Scottish ecosystem. Whether this was deliberate or escapees it serves to prove the point that the reintroduction of wildlife is very difficult to control.
When it comes to land ownership in Scotland my feet are firmly in the, all property is theft, camp. If he wants to be philanthropic give his land back to the people.
An other strand to this is the reporting this week that beavers have been illegally released into the Scottish ecosystem. Whether this was deliberate or escapees it serves to prove the point that the reintroduction of wildlife is very difficult to control.
Without predation, the beaver will further damage the tree population along the waterways. You can't have one animal and not the other. I do know of the rule about prey and predating animals not being allowed in the same enclosure, it was explained to me in a BOP sanctuary when I was down in London last year. That is why they fed the birds dead chicks from a nearby chicken farm, all the male chicks are gassed as they don't lay eggs so are no good to the farmer. Saying that, their enclosure is a few feet square whereas these animals are running about in a massive area. It's not as if threy have no chance at all to get away, they are limited by the boundaries of the fence, without the fence they would still have boundaries, just a lot bigger!
Similar threads
