A longing for simpler times?

[rik_uk3]

That's quite rude chum. This is an interesting debate lets not get carried away and disperse participants.

It was meant to be a comment on recent observations on some of Red's posts of late, content and tone, perhaps I was a little too direct but hey ho and as they say in the mafia "nothing personal, just business'.

Were things simpler forty or fifty years ago? Family sat listening to the wireless or watching telly...is that any worse than a family watching 3D TV/using a phone/tablet/computer today? My wife is fifty five and as the families eldest child her first job in the morning was getting the coal fire going...much nicer now to flick up the thermostat on the gas central heating.


Below is a typical list of what I used over forty years ago and did very well on it. The tent was fantastic but being ventile it weighed in at over 20lbs, my Hex comes in at under 2lb. A Trangia 27 is lighter than my Primus 210 and no need to carry mess tins... what I'm trying to say is things move on. You don't have to use modern technology, you thankfully here in the UK still have a choice.

1970 kit list

Army ‘radio/ammo’ carrier
Blacks Mountain Tent
Army mess tins
Enamel mug
KFS and SAK
Primus stove, full, would last weekend.
Couple of candles
Army sleeping bag @WW2
LiLo airbed
Torch
Small transistor radio so I could listen in to Radio Luxembourg at night.
Map and compass

Clothes I stood in
Spare jumper
Socks
Gloves
Wool hat
Pants
Nylon waterproof top and bottoms (after about 1968)

Food for weekend
Corned beef, smash, surprise dried peas
Cheese
Tin of butter
Jam
Porridge oats
Vesta beef risotto
Bread
Chocolate
Salted peanuts
Pound of bacon
Tea, dried milk and sugar.
Ryvita


That was me done for a typical weekend in Snowdonia. In winter obviously I’d take an ice axe and crampons.

 

[Joonsy]

Perhaps when seeking a simpler life we should consider ourselves fortunate in the first place that we are able to give things up, there are still millions of people in the world today that have absolutely nothing whatsoever and live and die a simple life in abject poverty, NOT choice. Perhaps it is only us that live in relative comfort already with the luxury of being able to opt-in or opt-out of modernity at will that choose to live simpler. Anyone at all can give absolutely everything away if they so wish, how lucky we are should we have that choice.

 

[demographic]

As several posters have alluded to, looking to the past to have a simpler life is a first world problem...

Things like Mobile phones have helped isolated communities in Africa get their farm produce to a place where it gets a higher price with less middlemen, greatly aided medicine getting to where its needed, through more people having mobiles they have been banking with them, cameras everywhere is shining a spotlight on the war crimes and corruption by providing evidence, blah blah blah.


Most of us here are in effect "Playing at it" and that's fine, its an interesting hobby. But even the ones who do it for a living are basically making money by instructing others.
Ray Mears makes a living from it, I bet people still see him ambling through the local superstore buying pasta/whatever.
Hugh Fernley Witting whatever he's called makes a bit deal out of his smallholding but for a long time I bet most of his income was from TV.
Now it might be from his farm shop that he's heavily promoted on TV and his restaurant which again he's promoted on TV a lot.

Even a smallholding its self wouldn't be economically viable without some form of other income, be it a pension, another job where one person goes out into the wide world whilst the other plays at farming or whatever. I have a reasonable clue about that because I lived in a hillfarm as a kid and my father needed other income to keep us fed.
That's with just shy of 60 acres and the common land for the sheep to graze on so a bit bigger than your average smallholding.
Read that Complete Guide to self Sufficiency book by John Seymour and you get to thinking that it will all be fresh apples and homegrown spuds. Yeah well maybe but try reading The Fat Of the Land by the same bloke and you realise that he still needed income from writing books so his kids could wear clothes to school.
That's not saying that doing what he did/does (is he still alive?) but what it does show is that even the bloke who wrote the book on it couldn't quite manage to live fully self sufficient.

The "Simpler life" wasn't simpler at all, it was bloody hard work. Now I liked watching The Old Country as a kid but better medicine, the internet really has democratised information and anyone with a basic connection has access to huge amounts of information.
You want to make something? Used to be you needed to buy a book on it, two out of three times that book was fairly crap and you lost interest before you really got started. Nowadays you hit Youtube and some random bloke in America shows you exactly how he made one.
Not only that but look to the right and some woman in Australia shows her way to make something like it and another chap in Birmingham has another way.

Then you get to have a bit of a moan about how it was all simpler before the internet...on the internet.

All that technology does is provide you with choices, you are perfectly free to live in a damp hovel and send message via carrier pigeon if you want. Admittedly we won't see those messages cos its not up on here. If the choices baffle you now I suspect that living back a hundred years would have been a lot more stressful.

Think about, Banking, Communication, Medicine, Transport, Access to information, then go back a hundred years and see how life would have been.

 

[Toddy]

I think modern technology is brilliant
My son phoned me from Hong Kong, and it was as clear as if he were in his own flat in Glasgow and it only cost him the same for the call too.
My 91 year old Uncle uses his mobile phone to ring me from the boating pond to ask for a lift home....or for me to send someone up to help out in his workshop.

I heat the house (and the hot water ) at the flick of a switch. I have been the one to clean the fire, lay the fire, light the fire and keep it lit every damned day in life for years on end.
I like fire, but I detest endless drudgery. Especially when it's mostly taken for granted.

Tv ? we have one (actually I think there are three of them ) I never watch it, and truthfully haven't a clue how to turn it on but that's my choice. Radio's the same, though I do like the ease of modern music, even if it doesn't sound the same
Books ? I live in a book filled world again, that's my choice. I do have an e-reader thingie; it's very handy at times and it's simplicity itself to use.

Sat Nav ? yep got that, and boy do I use it From the back of beyond to east of the sun, I've used it. Brilliant invention, and they're getting better too. I love maps; they are both geographical and social history on a page, and are utterly fascinating. Using them when driving though is a right royal pain

Modern camp kit is a revelation; it really is Old school is fine when you don't have to carry it, or dry it otherwise, hmmm, I like my new shiny stuff

Simpler life ? Modern kit makes my life simpler.
I don't slave to keep a fire burning, yet my home is warm and comfortable.
I wash and dry laundry without having winterdykes through the house.
I keep in touch easily with family and friends world wide.
I access the most amazing and endless streams of information on t'internet on every subject under the Sun.
I can buy, and sell, without having to trail through dozens of shops, and have it delivered or picked up right to and from the front door.

I still read books, I still write letters, I even practice my calligraphy
I make anything I choose, and I choose quite a lot
I still hang out washing on good days, and love the smell of windblown washing.
I grow, forage, gather, plant, process and feed us from it all.
I make my own 'lotions and potions', use my herbs, etc.,

Generally the simpler life that people seem to idolise is damned hard work. I mind women my age when I was little, and they were trauchled....that means worn done. I have r.a. and I'm not worn done, and it's because I have choice.

I choose the bits that I want to work at, and those that I find to be beyond my, "It needs done, do it", motto.

There is a real satisfaction in knowing 'how' to do something for oneself, an inherant chuffedness about doing a good job, of being capable and able.
Using technology doesn't take that away.

Relax, enjoy the company, it's Christmas eve, and I'm away to make dinner


Mary

 

[MikeLA]

The only things I hate in modern life

is Political correctness
going too far with Health and Safety (taking the fun out of growing up for our kids)

and a little too much equality for the few not the many.

 

[MikeLA]

I think modern technology is brilliant
My son phoned me from Hong Kong, and it was as clear as if he were in his own flat in Glasgow and it only cost him the same for the call too.
My 91 year old Uncle uses his mobile phone to ring me from the boating pond to ask for a lift home....or for me to send someone up to help out in his workshop.

I heat the house (and the hot water ) at the flick of a switch. I have been the one to clean the fire, lay the fire, light the fire and keep it lit every damned day in life for years on end.
I like fire, but I detest endless drudgery. Especially when it's mostly taken for granted.

Tv ? we have one (actually I think there are three of them ) I never watch it, and truthfully haven't a clue how to turn it on but that's my choice. Radio's the same, though I do like the ease of modern music, even if it doesn't sound the same
Books ? I live in a book filled world again, that's my choice. I do have an e-reader thingie; it's very handy at times and it's simplicity itself to use.

Sat Nav ? yep got that, and boy do I use it From the back of beyond to east of the sun, I've used it. Brilliant invention, and they're getting better too. I love maps; they are both geographical and social history on a page, and are utterly fascinating. Using them when driving though is a right royal pain

Modern camp kit is a revelation; it really is Old school is fine when you don't have to carry it, or dry it otherwise, hmmm, I like my new shiny stuff

Simpler life ? Modern kit makes my life simpler.
I don't slave to keep a fire burning, yet my home is warm and comfortable.
I wash and dry laundry without having winterdykes through the house.
I keep in touch easily with family and friends world wide.
I access the most amazing and endless streams of information on t'internet on every subject under the Sun.
I can buy, and sell, without having to trail through dozens of shops, and have it delivered or picked up right to and from the front door.

I still read books, I still write letters, I even practice my calligraphy
I make anything I choose, and I choose quite a lot
I still hang out washing on good days, and love the smell of windblown washing.
I grow, forage, gather, plant, process and feed us from it all.
I make my own 'lotions and potions', use my herbs, etc.,

Generally the simpler life that people seem to idolise is damned hard work. I mind women my age when I was little, and they were trauchled....that means worn done. I have r.a. and I'm not worn done, and it's because I have choice.

I choose the bits that I want to work at, and those that I find to be beyond my, "It needs done, do it", motto.

There is a real satisfaction in knowing 'how' to do something for oneself, an inherant chuffedness about doing a good job, of being capable and able.
Using technology doesn't take that away.

Relax, enjoy the company, it's Christmas eve, and I'm away to make dinner


Mary

I like everything you have said here. Good points.

 

[treadlightly]

If simplifying your life is a good thing, then surely yearning for a simpler time is not "self delusional" - its simply symptomatic of being disillusioned with the material world. I know some just love an extra LED or geegaw or higher resolution soap opera. Good luck to them - if a single serving, celluloid life if what you aspire to, it has never been more available.


That said I yearned for a simpler life, I sought it out, and I achieved it - what is wrong with that?

My point was that yearning for a simpler time is self-delusional because, in reality, there has never been a simpler time, it's just we perceive the past as simpler than the present. Simplifying your life is a different matter and a good thing, as you so ably demonstrate Mr Red.

 

[British Red]

I guess that's true - simpler is a very subjective term in any case.

Its worth reflecting on the fact that, for many years I was the senior guy in FTSE 100 firms deploying new technology. I became disillusioned with technology not from a user point of view, but from a professional point of view - as a person used to dealing with technology budgets in the tens of millions. Is it clever stuff? Hell Yes. Is it worth owning? In about 10% of cases, yes. In many cases no. It may be fun, it may be exiting - but it has no logical or commercial benefit. This is based on the MBA lectures I delivered as an authority on technology benefits management. Some technology is ground breaking from a capability perspective (Paypal), some from a user experience perspective (iPhone), some from an integration experience (amazon). Most is silly little applications running on a "me too" platform

I made a very good living allowing people to spend millions on techy fads they didn't need and that did not represent shareholder value.

I am happier now manuring my vegetable beds, cutting my firewood and canning my food.

Why post this?

Well it is better (but not simpler) to live on the land, than to develop IT worth tens of millions - it makes me happier. The OP asked

is modern life less enjoyable because its so busy, or have we never had it so good? Gadgets give us leisure time and the ability to organise our lives and interact with people to an extent never before possible? But do they also invade our time so my evening at home can be interrupted by calls, texts and emails from the world whether I want them or not.

The invasion of my life by text and e-mail in the early hours in high paid jobs in industry was unbearable. I am far happier without it. So, as a person who has actually been professionally employed in a senior technology position, and tried to live the "simple life" I think I am far better qualified than some of those who have done neither to comment.

Can you be happier with less technology, less salary, less stress, less texts. less e-mails and less pressure. YES. Definitively so , because I am.

Red

 

[demographic]

I guess that's true - simpler is a very subjective term in any case.

Its worth reflecting on the fact that, for many years I was the senior guy in FTSE 100 firms deploying new technology. I became disillusioned with technology not from a user point of view, but from a professional point of view - as a person used to dealing with technology budgets in the tens of millions. Is it clever stuff? Hell Yes. Is it worth owning? In about 10% of cases, yes. In many cases no. It may be fun, it may be exiting - but it has no logical or commercial benefit. This is based on the MBA lectures I delivered as an authority on technology benefits management. Some technology is ground breaking from a capability perspective (Paypal), some from a user experience perspective (iPhone), some from an integration experience (amazon). Most is silly little applications running on a "me too" platform

I made a very good living allowing people to spend millions on techy fads they didn't need and that did not represent shareholder value.

I am happier now manuring my vegetable beds, cutting my firewood and canning my food.

Why post this?

Well it is better (but not simpler) to live on the land, than to develop IT worth tens of millions - it makes me happier. The OP asked



The invasion of my life by text and e-mail in the early hours in high paid jobs in industry was unbearable. I am far happier without it. So, as a person who has actually been professionally employed in a senior technology position, and tried to live the "simple life" I think I am far better qualified than some of those who have done neither to comment.

Can you be happier with less technology, less salary, less stress, less texts. less e-mails and less pressure. YES. Definitively so , because I am.

Red

With all due respect, do you think that the land you own could keep you to the position where you would be happy with? Or do you have some outside income? Pension?
I honestly don't know how old you are as I've never seen pictures so please don't take that as an insult.


Its all very well owning a patch of land and having an outside income coming in to smooth out any problems you have but its a totally different matter to have to make that patch of land pay a mortgage and provide an income. Throw a few young kids into the mix and its even worse.
My point is that making your money doing one thing then moving onto another for retirement might not be a realistically viable proposition for the majority. For a start the land prices would rocket even further than they have now. Big mortgage to pay for the land? Everyone on it has to scrape a living off it.

That said, I'm happy that its working out for you as you do seem to be one of the people on here who is doing something close to what I would like to do in a few years time. Albeit getting there via a different route.

I suspect that I might well have digressed off the original thread topic slightly though.
One things for sure though, I never feel the desire to go back to the hunter gatherer days, without people paying into the kitty (tax) we don't get proper medicine so the infant mortality rate shoots up.

 

[boatman]

So, as a person who has actually been professionally employed in a senior technology position, and tried to live the "simple life" I think I am far better qualified than some of those who have done neither to comment.

Can you be happier with less technology, less salary, less stress, less texts. less e-mails and less pressure. YES. Definitively so , because I am.

Red

But your life is not simpler Red just demanding and complicated in a different way. Unecessary and even rude to imply that we now have to give a CV in order to be considered fit to post on a topic.

 

[British Red]

One things for sure though, I never feel the desire to go back to the hunter gatherer days, without people paying into the kitty (tax) we don't get proper medicine so the infant mortality rate shoots up.

Lets not conflate issues here. Te OP wasn't talking about universal healthcare. He was talking about can technology adversely affect quality of life - totally different issue.

With all due respect, do you think that the land you own could keep you to the position where you would be happy with? Or do you have some outside income? Pension?
I honestly don't know how old you are as I've never seen pictures so please don't take that as an insult.


Its all very well owning a patch of land and having an outside income coming in to smooth out any problems you have but its a totally different matter to have to make that patch of land pay a mortgage and provide an income. Throw a few young kids into the mix and its even worse

I don't take your questions as an insult - quite the reverse. Yes in the UK you have to make some money to buy a place. Lets be clear here, my lovely cottage with some land costs less than a two bedroom flat in Southampton ad less than a studio flat in Regents Park. But you need money to buy one in the UK - or you earn your money young and go to the US or Canada and buy about 100 times the acreage for the same money.

Can we live comfortably one the tiny plot we have? Yes - without a mortgage. With a mortgage - no chance.

The problem we have in the UK is too many people - too little land. This is not so in many other countries. With 40 acres, a strong fit husband and wife should be able to make ends meet - if they bust a hump. In the UK that costs half a million pounds. In other countries - it does not. If you have it though, that's every generation in your family that can live. Forever.

 

[British Red]

But your life is not simpler Red just demanding and complicated in a different way. Unecessary and even rude to imply that we now have to give a CV in order to be considered fit to post on a topic.

Learn to read dear boy. I did not say that my life was simpler. I stated that I, personally, was happier. I am. Are you perhaps better qualified than I am to attest to my state of mind?

Given that I did not state that my life was "simpler", I said I preferred my current life, please do not use the facile position of ascribing a view to me that I did not state, and then arguing with yourself.

 

[Ivan...]

Hey Red, don't bite mate, silly old Boatman likes a bit of keyboard warrior behaviour and he is only 3 days away from an April fool!

Ivan...

 

[boatman]

And a Merry Christmas to you Old bean