A Bold Statement
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EdS
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I suspect the answer is because a lot of folk practicing 'bushcraft' dont give two hoots about further experimentation. A swanndri, knife, campfire and a night under a tarp once a month is sufficent for them. RM with his TV shows, books and company. Dissolves the mysterious bushcraft world and makes it pretty straightforward. In doing so people get out and 'camp' out buy the kit and have a good time. If folk get really serious about 'Bushcraft' then I'm sure they'll read more and understand there is more than one way to skin a cat.
RM is a hugely sucessful TV personality. I would think it's true to say that seeing one of his TV shows is the catalyst for 80-90% of the interest in 'Bushcraft' in the UK today.
How many 'Bushcraft schools' and 'Bushcraft instructors' existed prior to RM's TV programmes? How many exist now?
He's the primary motivating force in popularity of 'bushcraft' in the UK IMHO.
I think that many people here were introduced to bushcraft skills and the respect for those arts by Ray Mears. I grew up at the same time as him so had the eighties revival that kicked me off. I really got into it when I started going on his courses in the nineties and grew a great respect for the gentle way he treats the outdoors. I never really looked further than him until joining here and seeing his programmes on pioneers in the subject, which has lead me even further away. Sad thing is, apart from Lofty W, I never really gave historical British bushcrafters a thought.
I think though, that people that are still following 'Rays Way' have been given great resources into historical pioneers by Ray himself recently, and hopefully he may cover those closer to home and open up that aspect in the near future.
Some people might wonder if Ray Mears invented the knife juging by the huge amout of people who feel they need the same knife.
I hope someone thought that was funny.
I hope someone thought that was funny.
I think the reason for all that is that what we arrogantly call "bushcraft" today, was yesterdays everyday skill that you needed in a rural community.
Who knows what everyday and unthought of skills in the urban environment will be considered exotic hobby activities in the future. Microwaving perhaps, or using a front loader washing machine
That was definately a bit uncalled for and arrogant of RM
Who knows what everyday and unthought of skills in the urban environment will be considered exotic hobby activities in the future. Microwaving perhaps, or using a front loader washing machine
That was definately a bit uncalled for and arrogant of RM
the 2 names i rememebr as a kid in the 80's while running riot in the woods all summer are Lofty Wiseman and Eddie Mcgee (infact i had the Mcgee kids book years before i heard of Lofty)
but that was all called Survival
as well as backwoods skills from the Boy Scouts (before they became the scouts and did badges in Nintendo etc)
that was more Bushcrafty but more tinfoil
but it never was a wide mainstream thing and tho it still isnt its known i nteh mainstream and if i haveto explain ot a horrifyed person the knives imake its that i make Ray mears bushcraft knifes like on telly and they relax and its alright.
how many people when asked what they do say " you know that Bear Grylls bloke on telly ...... well like him really just less elephant Poo"
ATB
Duncan
but that was all called Survival
as well as backwoods skills from the Boy Scouts (before they became the scouts and did badges in Nintendo etc)
that was more Bushcrafty but more tinfoil
but it never was a wide mainstream thing and tho it still isnt its known i nteh mainstream and if i haveto explain ot a horrifyed person the knives imake its that i make Ray mears bushcraft knifes like on telly and they relax and its alright.
how many people when asked what they do say " you know that Bear Grylls bloke on telly ...... well like him really just less elephant Poo"
ATB
Duncan
I'm not knocking anyone here but i would just like to say that bushcraft/survivalism existed for thousands of years before television. Just as Caruso is thought of as being the greatest opera singer ever because he was the first to record his voice and so make it available to the masses, Ray Mears will always be associated strongly with bushcraft/survivalism thanks to the media of television. The programmes he makes are without doubt very interesting and informative, however, i would like a rucksack like he has. It must be like the tardis, i've seen him use a large tarp, large sleeping system ( big sleeping bag and large bivi ) axe, hand drill, billy can and extra clothing and then walk off camera with a rucksack id struggle to get a clean pair of y fronts in. One question i have is if he really wants everyone to enjoy this thing called bushcraft, "that he invented" and make it available to everyone, why does nearly everything on his site cost twice as much for the same gear as on other comparable sites ?
For the most part I think it's an accurate statement in itself, he really has brought 'bushcraft' to the masses, we've had many discussions on the forums about bushcraft and survival, other names for bushcraft, what did you know bushcraft as when you were young etc etc. He has brought it to the fore and made it a well used term in this country and other places in the world. I don't think he discounts those that have gone before him or those that helped him learn his skills, I don't think that's the point of his statement. He's not saying he invented bushcraft, at the start he says he was looking for knowledge etc on how to do things in the outdoors, he's pulled a lot of outdoor activities under the umbrella and created the opportunity for an industry to grow and the masses to enjoy the outdoors in a more personal way.
I'm glad that he does all he does to promote bushcraft with all it's facets and i've no problem saying that he made bushcraft a mainstream subject in the UK. I don't think he's a technological pioneer in a big way, the guys and girls before were more that and people like Mors now focus on developing new skills and knowledge, pushing away at the boundaries we generally accept.
Ray is a business, although I think he likes the knowledge and skills side of things, he's had some business minded people around him that have protected and developed his business, that's likely to always be the case. With the internet no one needs to just buy from one place, there's plenty of choice now so I don't see why the prices have any relevance, especially to the talk in question.
I think he doesn't get credit enough, people are too quick to succumb to human nature and pull others down, he's been the force behind bushcraft in the UK and other places, when it comes to the actual term 'bushcraft' he did in the main bring it to the UK.
I'm glad that he does all he does to promote bushcraft with all it's facets and i've no problem saying that he made bushcraft a mainstream subject in the UK. I don't think he's a technological pioneer in a big way, the guys and girls before were more that and people like Mors now focus on developing new skills and knowledge, pushing away at the boundaries we generally accept.
Ray is a business, although I think he likes the knowledge and skills side of things, he's had some business minded people around him that have protected and developed his business, that's likely to always be the case. With the internet no one needs to just buy from one place, there's plenty of choice now so I don't see why the prices have any relevance, especially to the talk in question.
I think he doesn't get credit enough, people are too quick to succumb to human nature and pull others down, he's been the force behind bushcraft in the UK and other places, when it comes to the actual term 'bushcraft' he did in the main bring it to the UK.
Same for me although it was a little earlier in the late 70s when I first saw them. I suppose they've been around a bit. I was very young but clearly remember building shelters using gunnera leaves and branches after seeing EMcG do it. And the smell of meths still brings back memories of the little stove I used back then.
G'day Guys.
Not being from the Nth Hemisphere, I'll include what for many is an outsiders perspective.
I have seen Nth Americans attribute Mors Korchanski with inventing the term Bushcraft.
I have seen other Nth Americans, Europeans & UK residents attribute Ray Mears with inventing the term.
The truth be known, we'll probably never trully know who was the first to coin the term Bushcraft although its' been in use in Australia since at least the mid to late 1800's (which certainly predates the use of the term by any of the above mentioned gentlemen).
I guess it's more a comment on the modern way of life that it needs a special term to describe what was once just everyday knowledge.
Personally, I take my hat off to both Korchanski & Mears for kindling an interest in an ancient art, and encouraging people of all walks of life to get out & experience the outdoors
For those who think everything Mors or Ray is the Bees knees, if it works for you in your environment and you can afford it, then I reckon go for it. Even more so if it encourages you to spend time with mother nature
The only thing associated with Ray Mears that I own is his book "The Real Heroes of Telemark". For those who haven't read it I highly recommend it. A real tribute to the outdoor skill, courage & determination of the handfull of Norwegian saboteurs who denied the Nazis heavy water during WWII.
Before I go can I suggest that all remember that in this day & age, what is taught by all Bushcraft Gurus is what they have learnt themselves from others
As such I see them all as being more in the role of presenter rather than inventors :yikes:
Kind regards
Mick
Not being from the Nth Hemisphere, I'll include what for many is an outsiders perspective.
I have seen Nth Americans attribute Mors Korchanski with inventing the term Bushcraft.
I have seen other Nth Americans, Europeans & UK residents attribute Ray Mears with inventing the term.
The truth be known, we'll probably never trully know who was the first to coin the term Bushcraft although its' been in use in Australia since at least the mid to late 1800's (which certainly predates the use of the term by any of the above mentioned gentlemen).
I guess it's more a comment on the modern way of life that it needs a special term to describe what was once just everyday knowledge.
Personally, I take my hat off to both Korchanski & Mears for kindling an interest in an ancient art, and encouraging people of all walks of life to get out & experience the outdoors
For those who think everything Mors or Ray is the Bees knees, if it works for you in your environment and you can afford it, then I reckon go for it. Even more so if it encourages you to spend time with mother nature
The only thing associated with Ray Mears that I own is his book "The Real Heroes of Telemark". For those who haven't read it I highly recommend it. A real tribute to the outdoor skill, courage & determination of the handfull of Norwegian saboteurs who denied the Nazis heavy water during WWII.
Before I go can I suggest that all remember that in this day & age, what is taught by all Bushcraft Gurus is what they have learnt themselves from others
As such I see them all as being more in the role of presenter rather than inventors :yikes:
Kind regards
Mick
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I started learning bushcraft skills from my dad and uncle Emmet back in the '50s. Hunting, fishing, trapping, gigging, camping, learning useful plants. Formal education began in the 60s in the Boy Scouts. We called it camping and woodcraft. The first time I heard the term bushcraft was from reading Richard Graves' book. Larry Dean Olsen called it survival skills but he was talking about what is commonly accepted today as bushcraft. And of course, there's a wealth of books on the topic that predate all of this. I read Rutstrum long before Mears came along. But in general, I agree with Tony. Mears certainly has done more to advance the interest in bushcraft than anyone. In the U.S., all the outdoor programs over the years were about hunting and fishing. None on bushcraft. Backpacking became a separate outdoor endeavor, focusing on "leave no trace." The only time you saw bushcraft was in National Geographic documentaries or the occasional film produced at some university in the anthro department that accidently got shown on TV. 
Mears stands on a lot of shoulders but that's no reason to negate his accomplishments. What he chooses to take credit for I suppose could be an issue but that has nothing to do with bushcraft and everything to do with personalities. Success and humility do not often go hand in hand. Even Frodo could not toss the ring...
Mears stands on a lot of shoulders but that's no reason to negate his accomplishments. What he chooses to take credit for I suppose could be an issue but that has nothing to do with bushcraft and everything to do with personalities. Success and humility do not often go hand in hand. Even Frodo could not toss the ring...
You could argue that the Boys Brigade gave us Baden Powell who gave us Camping. Scouting For Boys was written for them original, but went general public before they got their hands on it. The rich did camp before then, and people traveling must have camped at some point. While you could argue that Baden Powell did not invent people camping, he did make it popular, and bring the idea to a lot of peoples attention.
Baden Powell indirectly gave us Ray Mears. His stuff is taking forward parts of what Powell did, taking ideas from the population of a place. You also have to keep in mind Powell was a Bushcrafter long before Mears' Granddad was born.
I would also argue that 'Bushcraft' cannot predate the Agricultural revolution, so about 200 to 300 years old. Before then it was not Bushcraft but everyday skills for most people. It is the changes in farming, law, and the rise of industry that causes these skills to fade. Even saying that, a lot of these skills were still in use by a lot of people.
To be honest, you could argue that Ray Mears' The Survival Handbook is the start of modern popular Bushcraft. Despite the title, this is not a standard survival text. I would be tempted to agree with Mears, he has done most to bring the Outdoor movement back on track from the extreme thing that was survival.
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Interesting thread Stuart, to which i would love to add much more but am lacking time ;-). Therefore I just wanted to add that whilst this 'subject' is largely a western one that is born out of colonialism, it was the colonialists that learned and recorded a large amount of indigenous knowledge for the benefit of imperialistic aims and endeavours, which was then codified, and formalised into a system for recording and teaching via a western rather than indigenous format.
So, many folk European traditional and more exotic indigenous skills have been adapted and systemised for inclusion in formalised, codified, structured education and adjusted to the considerations of urbanisation and the complexity of contemporary western life-styles. These skills have been extracted from their broader indigenous, local and cultural traditions to be transported and exported across geographical, historical, political and cultural boundaries, which naturally engenders significant change, abstraction and loss of original cultural significance (Ellen & Harris, 2003). Therefore, ‘bushcraft’ points not to the uniqueness of local expressions of tradition and embedded environmental knowledge from which it may have originated, but to the manifold contradictory forms of a modern concept referred to as ‘bushcraft’
Many of these skills were learned or re-learned from indigenous peoples who have receive little credit as groups let alone individuals within these groups...just another consideration ;-)
I do not find any problem with Rays statement...it seems fair enough to me with regards to UK bushcraft
So, many folk European traditional and more exotic indigenous skills have been adapted and systemised for inclusion in formalised, codified, structured education and adjusted to the considerations of urbanisation and the complexity of contemporary western life-styles. These skills have been extracted from their broader indigenous, local and cultural traditions to be transported and exported across geographical, historical, political and cultural boundaries, which naturally engenders significant change, abstraction and loss of original cultural significance (Ellen & Harris, 2003). Therefore, ‘bushcraft’ points not to the uniqueness of local expressions of tradition and embedded environmental knowledge from which it may have originated, but to the manifold contradictory forms of a modern concept referred to as ‘bushcraft’
Many of these skills were learned or re-learned from indigenous peoples who have receive little credit as groups let alone individuals within these groups...just another consideration ;-)
I do not find any problem with Rays statement...it seems fair enough to me with regards to UK bushcraft
Without doubt the most concise and accurate definition of 'Bushcraft' that I have heard to date, Thanks Lisa
Nope, I dont buy that either.
Would you say that people like the St Kildans and the Fen Tigers were indigineous people? They were citizens and colonalists...Albeit adapted to their own particular enviroments.
We could also Include dynamic people like the Roma and Saami, who adapted others culture and technologies to their own needs (and there was a certain degree of assimilation there too) They certainly got about.
Would you say that people like the St Kildans and the Fen Tigers were indigineous people? They were citizens and colonalists...Albeit adapted to their own particular enviroments.
We could also Include dynamic people like the Roma and Saami, who adapted others culture and technologies to their own needs (and there was a certain degree of assimilation there too) They certainly got about.
Thanks Stuart ...Tengu I don't know anything about St Kildeans or Fen Tigers, so I'm not entirely sure what your piont is? I think you are questioning my use of the term indigenous? If so I certainly would agree that it is a very loaded term, which anthropologists have written reams about and still don't agree on the the best term to use...indigenous, aboriginal can be extremely politically loaded, as is 'traditional'...and yes it is well documented that cultures assimilate aspects of surrounding cultures with whome they come into contact. 'Tradition' itslef is not seen as static, or based necessarily in the past, but as continiously reinventing itself to give rise to new outcomes and 'bushcraft' appears to be a very interesting example of that?
...Tengu I don't know anything about St Kildeans or Fen Tigers, so I'm not entirely sure what your piont is? I think you are questioning my use of the term indigenous? If so I certainly would agree that it is a very loaded term, which anthropologists have written reams about and still don't agree on the the best term to use...indigenous, aboriginal can be extremely politically loaded, as is 'traditional'...and yes it is well documented that cultures assimilate aspects of surrounding cultures with whome they come into contact. 'Tradition' itslef is not seen as static, or based necessarily in the past, but as continiously reinventing itself to give rise to new outcomes and 'bushcraft' appears to be a very interesting example of that?
Thanks Stuart
Bushcraft as a word has infinite meaning to all those that use it. As do other terms like indigenous and tradition. It's mostly the way we interpret those terms that lead to disagreements or alternate views on topics posted on forums. The art of conversation in a one to one physical sense is much less confusing.
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