4x4's and the low emission zone...

[Bernie Garland]

some good points in this thread, but drive there on a regular basis,then decide and air your views, as a regular driver there i couldn't get on public transport, as i drove a more gas gussleing machine, a 50 ton excavator so where the machine went i did,i soon purchased a little nissan micra to get me to and fro

 

[Martyn]

a very self centred attitude.come on guys respect the planet,and yes you will pay your taxes n they gonna go up n up driving a diesal guzzler have u even been off road in it?

It's all about choice. We dont live in a military state (contrary to what some may think), where you work, how far you travel, what car you drive is all personal choice. I drive a Land Rover because I want to, no other reason, but I do less than 3000 miles a year. I work less than a mile from where I live, that was my choice, so that makes my annual commuting mileage less than 800. I could drive a tractor to work each day and put less CO2 into the atmosphere than my eco-neighbour who does 30,000 miles a year commuting (through choice) in his eco-friendly cinquicento.

What car you drive is irrelevant, it's the mileage or rather the total fuel consumption which is important. My annual diesel consumption is far, far less than almost everyone I know. So my (motoring) CO2 contribution is also far, far lower than almost everyone I know. That makes me one of the most eco-friendly motorists among all the people I know. Why then, should I be "fined" for driving a Land Rover?

You could have a 12 litre Dodge Viper sitting in your garage, but if you only do 100 miles a year in it, then you are as green as green can be.

The point is, the only fair "eco-tax" you can levy on anyone, is on the fuel they use, because that is the ONLY true measure of how much pollution you put into the environment. It's a really simple equation - fuel in = carbon out.


With regard to living in London, what about the person who lives there and keeps their Landy in the garage for trips to the country at weekends? Why should they be fined for driving out of the city to get to the country?

 

[mr dazzler]

With regard to living in London, what about the person who lives there and keeps their Landy in the garage for trips to the country at weekends? Why should they be fined for driving out of the city to get to the country?

Red ken chavez doesnt see it like that, he just wants money for his pet schemes and eco-fear has given him a viable opportnity to create yet another taxable commodity to burden people. I looked at the LEZ web site, it seems very threatening, no prices quoted that I could see, but plenty of emphasis on penelty's and fines, "do not ignore a penalty" etc. Just another scam/theft to further cripple business IMHO. I agree with you Martyn, your charge's should be based on how much fuel you use per year, not wether you have to drive in one area or another, or wether you have this or that car.

 

[gregorach]

Emissions reduction is not necessarily just about the environment, it's about people too. According to the BMJ, it's responsible for somewhere between 12,000 and 24,000 deaths every year. Now obviously not all of those are down to urban air pollution from vehicles, but that's almost certainly the single biggest component.

I'm sure that when the 1953 Clean Air Act was brought in, lots of people were upset about losing their coal fires.

 

[h2o]

good morning chaps ,i also used to drive a peugeout boxer van when i needed it for work.i also had a 4x4 but now i drive a small car because it cost less in petrol not because of green issues.but now i have a small car i feel i have to carry on with small cars i feel i am making a small difference to the enviroment ,people can drive what they like but if the 4x4s are making more emmisions then i do see it fair that they are taxed more.i am not attacking 4x4 drivers i am just letting u know why people are against your diesal guzzlers.like smoking in public is anti social cars with large emisions will be as anti social in another 10 yrs as people become more educated.people do need cars to get to and from work apart from martyn who could walk if its less than a mile

 

[Chainsaw]

I just punched my reg etc into the tool and it didn't recognize my car, came back with an error. I changed my car back in October so would I get penalized for them having the wrong info on file?

I personally think Mr Livingstone has a great revenue stream on tap and he's making the most of it as would any other dictator given the remit he has.

Glad I don't have to live and work down there,

Cheers,

Alan

PS my 2.5L diesel gets better mpg than my wifes 1.6L petrol

 

[h2o]

the above last comment is light hearted banter !!! do not be offended !!!

 

[irishlostboy]

i think a mental separation is needed. the tag 4x4 is pretty broad. i don't think anyone has the same level of objection to peoples use of an "old landy" used by an outdoorsman for outdoor activities in moderation, as they do for the bright silver fuel guzzling tanks such as built by subaru, honda, etc, etc, and are being used by soccer moms to shuttle their kids too and from school. again, the problem caused by this type of vehicle in an urban environment may not be fully appreciated by those who do not currently live in, and have to navigate around a city.
yes, the legal system tends to tar everyone with the same brush, but it has to, to keep a semblance of justice.
...........and the attitude of "i pay my taxes, so that gives me the right to destroy a little bit of the world in any way i want to" is just as ignorant as can be.

and on an aside, h20 asked about veggie oil for running diesel engines; converting an engine is easy. it involves a filter for the oil, a tiger-loop to extract excess air from the oil, and a heat-plate to heat the oil for combustion. some people get their oil from the local restaurants and chippers, filter it themselves. in some areas you can buy bio-diesel.
other issues in the conversion are, your engine will probably need a little more attention and TLC after the conversion, and you may not get as much power and acceleration from your engine. then there are other variations on the theme, with two tanks systems, or oil and diesel mixes, etc etc. the biggest bonuses to conversion are, cheaper, (slightly) cleaner emissions, and your money is not going into the pockets of the petrochemical companies.

 

[h2o]

can a petrol car be converted to run on chip fat and how big of an area would i need to process it?the car is a merc a140

 

[Bernie Garland]

can a petrol car be converted to run on chip fat and how big of an area would i need to process it?the car is a merc a140

i don't think it can, as chip fat is heavy oil like diesel and works on compression, not a spark like petrol engines

 

[h2o]

oh well im looking into getting an electric push bike to get to work on.ill use the motor getting there so i dont stink of B.O when i get to work then ill use pedal power on the way home.does anyone know of a good brand of electric bike im clueless but they seem like a good idea i only work 7 miles away but i start at 6 am before the local buses start running.and i want a bike that also folds so i can get on the bus on the way back if i cant be bothered cycling.eg in the snow rain hail ,ive looked on ebay but im not sure about the quality etc.

 

[TallMikeM]

what gets me (and I guess a lot of peeps on here) is the targeting of the vehicles. Fair do's that the real old smokers need to be got off thd road (tho the emissions test of the MOT should take care of that), but the real nasty carbon emitters aren't Joe Countryside and his battered old 90 or bob the builder in his transit, but little miss princess in her lexus 4*4 or range rover with its 4.5 lt petrol engine. How much carbon must those monsters emit?

 

[h2o]

this is what bothers me .some farmer who uses and needs a 4x4 fair do,s i send my kids to school on theyre bikes some people drop theyre kids of in 4ltr turbo deisal its just lazyness and showing off hey every1 look at my big shiny car.if u need em drive em if u dont buy a little car .i dont want to come across as some crazy eco warrior but come on lets not burn fuel unnessasary lets recycle and dont drop litter .and dont smoke in the doorways of restourants its ill mannered and rude.how would u like it if i stood there farting!

 

[Martyn]

good morning chaps ,i also used to drive a peugeout boxer van when i needed it for work.i also had a 4x4 but now i drive a small car because it cost less in petrol not because of green issues.but now i have a small car i feel i have to carry on with small cars i feel i am making a small difference to the enviroment ,people can drive what they like but if the 4x4s are making more emmisions then i do see it fair that they are taxed more.

...and if they make less emissions than you do you think it's fair they are taxed more?

i am not attacking 4x4 drivers i am just letting u know why people are against your diesal guzzlers.like smoking in public is anti social cars with large emisions will be as anti social in another 10 yrs as people become more educated.people do need cars to get to and from work apart from martyn who could walk if its less than a mile

I could walk to work, but as I make less pollution than you, I dont feel I need to. You see pollution is about how many miles you do, not the car you do them in.

...i only work 7 miles away.

...and I only work less than 1 mile away.

Some quick maths for you.

1 mile x twice a day = 2 miles, times 5 days = 10 miles, x52 weeks = 520 miles a year.

7 miles x twice a day = 14 miles, times 5 days = 70 miles, x52 weeks = 3640 miles a year.

So you do 7 times more miles than me. Assuming your car is twice as efficient (which it probably isnt), then you personally pollute 3.5 times more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than I do.

Yet you think it's me that should walk and me that should pay more tax. That's very odd logic.

Now if the fuel was taxed instead of the car, you would pay more than me for polluting more than I do ....that's fair.

 

[gregorach]

Now if the fuel was taxed instead of the car, you would pay more than me for polluting more than I do ....that's fair.

A perfectly reasonable idea... which the road haulage lobby will resist to the death, unfortunately.

 

[Martyn]

A perfectly reasonable idea... which the road haulage lobby will resist to the death, unfortunately.

Yes they would and the government know they would not win public support for it, so they try to appease the green lobby by targetting particular types of private vehicles instead.

It's a shame, because if Sainsbury's had to pay twice the tax for hauling their tomatoes from South Africa, they may be persuaded to pay 10% more and get then from the greenhouse up the road.

 

[h2o]

its common knowledge that a car spews out it emmisions on the early part of the journey so u are using your car unessasarilly where i am using it to earn money to pay taxes.so the government can sit around deciding to tax deisal guzzlers!using the car for journeys of less than 1 mile is like using the car to take the kids to school tis a bit sad

 

[h2o]

i agree that fuel should be taxed to encompass road tax ,insurance,and for offsetting carbon.but i still think using the car for journeys of less than a mile is just plain bone idol

 

[gregorach]

its common knowledge that a car spews out it emmisions on the early part of the journey

It is? Or is this perhaps an example of the words "common knowledge" being used in the journalistic sense, i.e. as a euphemism for "total rubbish that I just made up"? Does your car use significantly more fuel per mile travelled during "the early part of the journey" (however that may be defined) than it does at other times?

 

[rik_uk3]

Don't worry about 4X4 emissions

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22879806-29277,00.html