4 Season Sleeping - Weight vs Warm vs Size - The old debate

[johnboy]

I'm not that fussed if it is either down or synthetic, but I do want best bag I can get.

I am a UK camper mostly so mainly dealing with temps down to about -7 (havent been to North Scotland so if this warmth needs adjusting, please let me know). I plan on going away to other climates, but no sure where yet.

I basically want to be able to camp all year round in Europe or US with a bag that is small and weight 1kg ish or less.


All comments wanted, but please only comment offering either personal experience of the bags listed of an alternative.

Hi,

I've owned quite a few sleeping bags over the years Issued Army, Civvy, Synthetic, Down, fibre pile etc I suppose there are a good 10 sleeping bags of one type or another in our garage Initially like you I wanted 1 bag that could cover all bases.

My experience and my advice is 1 bag cannot cover all bases. It's not too bad if you say hey I want a bag that can do for most of the UK all year round but I'm not going to be snow camping etc... But to say hey I want a bag to cover all temps and all conditions and perhaps in the UK and possibly overseas as well with the greatest of respect to you and your intentions I'd say you are being optimistic.

A sleeping bag that stops you getting totally hypothermic in a snow cave at 2500m in January when your tired a bit hungry a bit damp and wearing every stitch of clothing you put into your sabre 75 will be too warm to sleep in comfortably on the Beach in Cornwall in June.

I think you need to consider what type of person you are and are you a warm sleeper to begin with. If you are then you can 'get away' with a less insulated bag for example. I also think you need to understand where you're really likely to be going what elevation what time of year and buy a bag that meets those critera.

I've basically got 3 Bags I use regularly these are:

Macpac Down filled Solstice 4+ season I use this for all my alpine trips in the winter and some in the summer

Buffalo 4 season outer ( on it's own about a 3 season bag) I use this in the bush as it's very resistant to damp conditions and as tough as old boots the centre zip is good for hammock camping. it is very bulky as fibre pile does not compress and it's easy to launder.

Millet 2 season synthetic very light with a tiny pack size and fine for summer use here in NZ below the bush line and use in huts above the bushline in Summer.

I'd reccomend those to you for their intended use.

In the UK I used an Anjungilak Igloo which was a 3 season synthetic and was fine for everywhere except on the tops in the Lakes, N Wales, Scotland in Winter. I had a ME Redline for winter snow camping etc.

Hope this helps

 

[rik_uk3]

This would be above your weight limit, but have you thought about the US Army modular sleeping system?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-US-Army-M...Collectables_Militaria_LE?hash=item334a968961

 

[Genaa]

PHD Combi bag might also give you options for colder weather when added to say a minim or minimus bag

 

[lamper]

Hi,

I've owned quite a few sleeping bags over the years Issued Army, Civvy, Synthetic, Down, fibre pile etc I suppose there are a good 10 sleeping bags of one type or another in our garage Initially like you I wanted 1 bag that could cover all bases.

My experience and my advice is 1 bag cannot cover all bases. It's not too bad if you say hey I want a bag that can do for most of the UK all year round but I'm not going to be snow camping etc... But to say hey I want a bag to cover all temps and all conditions and perhaps in the UK and possibly overseas as well with the greatest of respect to you and your intentions I'd say you are being optimistic.

Hey Johnboy,

You're right, that would be optimisitc. What I am looking for a is a bag to replace my current Snugpack -10c 3 season. Something smaller and lighter that will cover me when my summer bag is not up to the job.

I'll check out the bags you mentioned.

Another one to add to the mix is >>
Mountain Equipement Xero 550 - (-6) expensive when compared to the Alpkit.
http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/the_gear/down_sleeping_bags/xero/xero_550_---466/

This would be above your weight limit, but have you thought about the US Army modular sleeping system?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-US-Army-M...Collectables_Militaria_LE?hash=item334a968961

Love the idea of this, my mate has one for when he is fishing, but then he drives to the lake, sadly just too big even if you forget the weight.

 

[johnboy]

What I am looking for a is a bag to replace my current Snugpack -10c 3 season. Something smaller and lighter that will cover me when my summer bag is not up to the job.

Understood but what do you want the new bag to do? What conditions do you really expect to be using it in? Size and weight seem important to you. But I don't think you're going to get a bag that has a small pack size and low weight that'll keep you warm enough to get a really good nights sleep in very cold conditions.

The question you're really asking is what's the warmest bag I can get for an all up total weight of 1.0kg or 1.2 kg max??

I tend to look at it from a different angle. I'm going into this environment in these conditions at this time of year. I want to be warm enough to sleep comfortably what bag can do that with the minimum of bulk and weight.

I'm pretty wary of the extreme minimum rating on Bags as all this means to me is that at that given rating I'd be in the bag wide awake or sleeping extremely fitfully cold and on the verge of hypothermia but I'd get up in the AM and be alive...

 

[Genaa]

Uprating your sleeping mat to something considerably warmer than the thermarest will allow you to take a lighter sleeping bag longer into the autumn and winter and, if you go for a custom built bag, you can even specify how you want the down distributed to ensure that you put more on top to allow for an improved mat keeping you warmer underneath... like with most situations there is a triangular relationship between price, warmth and weight at play here - you choose the two that are most important to you and sadly that means that if you want both light weight and extreme warmth , it will come at a heftier price but it can be done. Best combo weight for warmth is probably the exped mat coupled with lightweight PHD bag, with a combi - overbag to use with it when the weather gets colder - that will cover all seasons with the minimum of kit and weight - but at hefty cost sadly.....

 

[Grooveski]

Another one to add to the mix is >>
Mountain Equipement Xero 550 - (-6) expensive when compared to the Alpkit.
http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/the_gear/down_sleeping_bags/xero/xero_550_---466/

I think that was the one with the deep footwell. I mind thinking I'd have to be a contortionist to tuck my feet in in a hammock and it felt slightly tight round the knees, Couldn't use it as a quilt so easily,
Good zip.
Didn't have the ooph per price of the others.

Cotswald outdoors sell them(discount for BcUK members). Was the best bag they had in the shop bar an artic number.

 

[lamper]

All,

Thanks for the insights and help.

Think I have decided on the Alpkit Pipedream 800 for the following reasons...
- Great Price
- Good lower temp rating (-18c is about 8c below where I wanted so should be comfy warm)
- Good pack size
- Good Weight

If I had the cash I would get a Rab Quantum 600, but at £350-400 its aint cheap!!

 

[VirusKiller]

My only concern is that the PD800 is going to be too warm for you most of the time. The danger is that your toasty 4 season bag will only be usable in Winter. How often are you going to be sleeping colder than -10° (PD600 comfort limit)?

I went through this dilemma a year or so ago and, in the end got the a bargain ME Lightline (-5° comfort) which will do me for most of the year. It's not as light as the PD400 or PD600, but it's only 1130g and has superb baffling - I went for the luxury option!

I also bought another very light bag for Summer use (the Lightline is just too hot) and quickly got the opportunity to test it to its limits. I knew the bag would be at or below its 7° comfort limit with the temperatures forecast for the night (9° low, probably 5° on the ground), but there was only one way to find out whether or not the bag would live up to spec. So I wore a wool base layer and my 550 fill down jacket: My torso was quite toasty; with lightweight woolen long johns, my legs were a little cool, but not cold. So, in summary, you can add an extra season to a bag with a down jacket and long johns if you really need to. With a PD600, what are the chances you will?

 

[lamper]

My only concern is that the PD800 is going to be too warm for you most of the time. The danger is that your toasty 4 season bag will only be usable in Winter. How often are you going to be sleeping colder than -10° (PD600 comfort limit)?

I went through this dilemma a year or so ago and, in the end got the a bargain ME Lightline (-5° comfort) which will do me for most of the year. It's not as light as the PD400 or PD600, but it's only 1130g and has superb baffling - I went for the luxury option!

I also bought another very light bag for Summer use (the Lightline is just too hot) and quickly got the opportunity to test it to its limits. I knew the bag would be at or below its 7° comfort limit with the temperatures forecast for the night (9° low, probably 5° on the ground), but there was only one way to find out whether or not the bag would live up to spec. So I wore a wool base layer and my 550 fill down jacket: My torso was quite toasty; with lightweight woolen long johns, my legs were a little cool, but not cold. So, in summary, you can add an extra season to a bag with a down jacket and long johns if you really need to. With a PD600, what are the chances you will?

I have a good Karrimore for the summer - been in down to about 10c in my hammock and was still so warm I had to leave it undone.

The PD800 is going to be 'other' bag. When the summer bag is no up to it. Personally I would rather be VERY warm than cold. I will probably get a 3rd bag to cover the mid section, but for now I can either
- use the summer bag with a liner and hat etc.
- use the PD800 as just a blanket

This way I can still go out in Dec - Feb and not worry.

I like the look of the MH and ME bags, but I can see how they are £100 more bag than the Alpkit, and if the PD800 does well, I can get a 400 to match!

 

[Overlander30]

North face blue kazoo ticks all the boxes. its good to -5 on the label, but i ve had it down to at least -15 (with thermals) and been as warm as anything, and i m a cold sleeper generally. The standard length is about a kilo from memory.

 

[jdlenton]

North face blue kazoo ticks all the boxes. its good to -5 on the label, but i ve had it down to at least -15 (with thermals) and been as warm as anything, and i m a cold sleeper generally. The standard length is about a kilo from memory.

Pipped to the post

I've been through the exact same thing just recently i wanted a lighter bag that would do me most of the year round in the UK and i went with t the Blue Kazoo in the end and i love it.

got mine from here ( the usual no link just satisfied customer over many years) and at £125 not a bad deal

As has been said you cant use one tool for every situation but for what i do in the uk this a great bag.

Lamper please tell us how you get on and if you decide to buy what you go for I would be very interested to hear your decision.

J*

 

[lamper]

Pipped to the post

I've been through the exact same thing just recently i wanted a lighter bag that would do me most of the year round in the UK and i went with t the Blue Kazoo in the end and i love it.

got mine from here ( the usual no link just satisfied customer over many years) and at £125 not a bad deal

As has been said you cant use one tool for every situation but for what i do in the uk this a great bag.

Lamper please tell us how you get on and if you decide to buy what you go for I would be very interested to hear your decision.

J*

I saw this at the North Face outlet store in Convent Garden. They are good bags, light and packs down small.

I think I will still go for the Alpkit as it wamer (supposedly) for the same price.

I'm ordering today so will let you know.

 

[jdlenton]

cool the alpkit is a good bag just didn't quite have enough cash to go there. anyway let us know how you get on a review might not be a bad idea

 

[lamper]

Yeah will do.

Didn't order in the end as I am not torn between the Pipedream 600 or the 800.

The 800 is only £20 more, but weight an extra 200g.

Its comfort temp is -18c with an upper of -2c. This seems a little excessive, but the 600 is out of stock until MARCH!!!

will keep you up todate.

Mike