308 round found in my local wood

[Bowlander]

A friend of mine accidentally loaded .223 powder into a .300winmag and knackered the action of his Rem700 but it didn't blow up. He contacted Remington to see if they'd buy the gun back to demonstrate how strong the actions are, Remington said he could give them the gun to demonstrate how stupid home loaders can be!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2

 

[santaman2000]

A lot of the competitions my old man shot in were done with standard NATO ammunition, he wouldn't know how to hand load a shopping trolley let alone a 7.62mm FMJ, or a 9mm Parabellum... Though on the small bore .22 competitions they probably used Match ammo rather than issued.

Did he fire in national Match High Power long range? (1000 yards with open sights) The winners usually shoot very near a possible. The competitions I shot in were also with standard issue ammo (both in the military and police competitions) But those weren't "serious" competitions. They were indeed "formal" competitions with trophies and prizes, and the shooters are indeed quite good usually. But comparing them to National Match or serious international matches would be like comparing a university athlete to a Olympic athlete in more ways than one; Just like professional sports teams scout the universities for athletes good enough to recruit to the next level, the military's true inter-service and international competition teams scout these lower competitions for prospects.

 

[santaman2000]

Santayana, tosh, I served 8 years, in an infantry regiment, we shot a minimum twice a month, in N.I. It was every week. As for taking it serious, at depot I qualified for my marksman badge as did all of my training platoon, this qualification I maintained through out my career. I also qualified on my Battalions sniper cadre, and went on to Warminster and qualified there. When, a person chambers a round and is in a position too take a life, he takes it serious, sorry to sound dramatic, but it is a serious business.

Sorry but qualifying for a Marksman badge in the military just isn't all that difficult. As you yourself just said, all your training platoon qualified for it. Marines aren't allowed to even graduate boot camp unless they qualify to at least the Marksman level, including the marines assigned to an adminisrative MOS such as clerk/typist or cook. The marines assigned as infantrymen have to do so on a night fire course and in full chemical gear (though not both at the same time)

Even as an Air Force mechanic, I qualified as at the Expert level in both m16 and M9 (for over 21 years with the M16; a bit less with the M9 as we didn't get those until 1984 and generally mechanics weren't required to qualify with handguns) For us in the Air Force, that level wasn't required, but it just ain't that hard.

Sniper qualification however is another matter. That does take a serious shooter. BUT! And it's a big but. The vast majority of military shooters will never qualify as a scout/sniper. Most simply qualify once a year (twice a year for some career fields and even quarterly for a very few career fields)

 

[santaman2000]

.......I didn't follow him in the Military, though I could put a 63mm group down at 100mtrs with Iron sights and standard NATO Ball ammunition and IIRC it was Early December 1982 ;-)

63 milimeter group at 100 meters with iron sights? That's not particularly impressive. It's good mind you, but not impressive. Even with standard factory ammo. MOA at 100 yards is 1 inch (254 milimeters) As the arc opens up moving farther to 100 meters that should be about 270 milimeters more or less) Most modern firearms are accurate to at least that level, and most reasonably competent shooters are about half that accurate (2 inches at 100 yards or fairly close to your 63 milimeters at 100 meters)

Truly serious competitive shooter shoots at 1000 yards (914.4 meters) with iron sights and the winners score very nearly a possible (all in or touching the 10 ring)

 

[santaman2000]

A lot of the competitions my old man shot in were done with standard NATO ammunition, he wouldn't know how to hand load a shopping trolley let alone a 7.62mm FMJ, or a 9mm Parabellum... Though on the small bore .22 competitions they probably used Match ammo rather than issued.

No and our soldiers don't actually load their own either, that's done for them in the marksmanship unit's custom firearms shop where their rifles and ammo are assembled and tuned by specialists. Once you're into this link, click on the selection at the upper left menu, for the custom firearms shop

www.goarmy.com/events/army-marksmanship-unit.htm

This one's for the Army's competitive team, but all the branches have something similar.

 

[wingstoo]

63 milimeter group at 100 meters with iron sights? That's not particularly impressive. A truly serious competitive shooter shoots at 1000 yards (914.4 meters) with iron sights and the winners score very nearly a possible (all in or touching the 10 ring)

that wasn't competition shooting though, that was just a very cold and wet day on the north Yorkshire moors as a trainee gunner in my first three months of service on a fig 11 target and standard issue ammunition using a well used SLR, the standard then was 100mm at 100mtrs so that was putting me way above average. I don't do competition shooting, just grouping and application, unless a marksman badging is classed as competition. On the small bore ranges with standard No8 Lee-Enfield rifle and standard sub-sonic ammunition it used to be one hole of 15mm 5 round group, standard was 25mm at 25mtrs for Marksmanship standard. all my shooting was done prone unsupported and without sling and iron sights. Scopes were for above 300mtrs only back in my day.

 

[santaman2000]

that wasn't competition shooting though, that was just a very cold and wet day on the north Yorkshire moors as a trainee gunner in my first three months of service on a fig 11 target and standard issue ammunition using a well used SLR, the standard then was 100mm at 100mtrs so that was putting me way above average. I don't do competition shooting, just grouping and application, unless a marksman badging is classed as competition. On the small bore ranges with standard No8 Lee-Enfield rifle and standard sub-sonic ammunition it used to be one hole of 15mm 5 round group, standard was 25mm at 25mtrs for Marksmanship standard. all my shooting was done prone unsupported and without sling and iron sights. Scopes were for above 300mtrs only back in my day.

Yeah for military shooting, scopes weren't common except among snipers during my time either. As I said, your grouping is indeed good particulrly for an ordinary military shooter (myseld incuded TBH) As you've just said, you didn't shoot competitively though so you weren't that impressed with it either, at least not on the level of a serious shooter. That's why I didn't do more competitive shooting than just a very few local matches; I shot at about that same level of proficiency and it just isn't good enough to match up against the major leagues. I realy don't know much about the accuracy of the SLR but as I said, most modern rifles are capable of MOA accuracy and I would imagine that the SLR is no exception.

Our military qualification (and my police qualification) shooting doesn't depend on the grouping size as such (The Marines might but I'm not sure) Any hit to the standard combat silhouette (an armless head and torso silhoette) counts. Normal qualification for the Air Force and Army is done from varying shooting positions and at varying ranges up to 50 yards with the M9 (Beretta model 92) or 100 yards with the M16. The Marines qualify out to 600 yards. Expert Marksman required a score of over 90% after sighting in, and I usually scored 100% The Air Force doesn't award anything other than "Fail" "Pass" or "Expert Marksman" so I'm not sure what the Marines or Army requirements for "Marksman" is per se but I do know that it's lower than their award for "Expert Marksman." I know even less about the Navy or Coast Guard requirements (as in, I know nothing except that they have to qualify and that a higher percentage of the Coast Guard have to qualify with handguns because of their boarding parties during maritime enforcement.