3+ or 4-season sleeping bag?

[VirusKiller]

I'm in a complete quandary over a sleeping bag decision. I want to be able to sleep in the Winter (down to -10° say), but don't want a bag that is too warm or too heavy for Spring/Autumn.

Should I go for a heavier -10° 4-season bag or a lighter -3° 3+ season bag? Can a 3+ season bag become a 4-season bag if you wear more clothes?

Examples of the choice are: AlpKit PipeDream 400 (-3° 750g) vs. PipeDream 600 (-10° 950g), or the ME Lightline (-5° 1130g) vs. ME Frostline (-10° 1290g).

Or am I simply not going to be happy unless I get two bags?

 

[Andy2112]

I'm in a complete quandary over a sleeping bag decision. I want to be able to sleep in the Winter (down to -10° say), but don't want a bag that is too warm or too heavy for Spring/Autumn.

Should I go for a heavier -10° 4-season bag or a lighter -3° 3+ season bag? Can a 3+ season bag become a 4-season bag if you wear more clothes?

Examples of the choice are: AlpKit PipeDream 400 (-3° 750g) vs. PipeDream 600 (-10° 950g), or the ME Lightline (-5° 1130g) vs. ME Frostline (-10° 1290g).

Or am I simply not going to be happy unless I get two bags?

If you get the 3 season bag get a liner which might just add another seaon. Yes, wear more clothes in the 3 season bag.

 

[gregorach]

The other question is how much real winter camping are you actually going to do? A lot of people seem to buy bags which will be comfortable in the most extreme conditions they are ever going to encounter, but hardly ever actually use them to that level. Will you be in a tent? In the UK? If the answers to both are "Yes", you're not really likely to experience -10 that often, unless you're mountaineering in the Highlands.

I would rather be comfortable most of the time and occasionally suffer a cold night than be too hot most of the time and occasionally have a comfortable night. I bought the Rab Quantum 200 (1-2 season, comfort rated to +6) partly because I was sick of being too hot in my 3 season Ajungilak.

 

[Graham_S]

I prefer a lighter bag and a series of liners.
I have a bivi bag, a nanok 0 bag, a fleece liner and a silk liner.
I also use a hammock quilt sometimes in the summer as a blanket with a roll mat if I'm travelling light. I can extend it into winter with the liners and bivi bag.

Everyone accepts the layering principle when dressing, but it doesn't seem popular with sleeping gear.

 

[VirusKiller]

The other question is how much real winter camping are you actually going to do?

Enough. In a tent, no. In the UK, yes.

I would rather be comfortable most of the time and occasionally suffer a cold night than be too hot most of the time and occasionally have a comfortable night.

I couldn't agree more. Three out of the four British seasons are not Winter...

If you get the 3 season bag get a liner which might just add another seaon. Yes, wear more clothes in the 3 season bag.

I prefer a lighter bag and a series of liners.
I have a bivi bag, a nanok 0 bag, a fleece liner and a silk liner.

Everyone accepts the layering principle when dressing, but it doesn't seem popular with sleeping gear.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I'm all for getting a lighter bag and extending it. The only question I had was regarding the effectiveness of layering, but I didn't know that bag liners come in fleece. I think that a AlpKit PipeDream 400 @ 750g plus a fleece liner would be a great combo.

Thanks!

 

[gzornenplat]

I bought a +7°C rated synthetic bag for when I was travelling in Spain,
May to September. I also have a 0°C rated down bag. Combine the two,
and in theory (my theory, anyway) if I combine the two they should be
OK to -25°C.

I have no way of testing this right now, and I wouldn't like to rely on it at
that temperature, but I've tried just the 0°C bag at 0°C and that is right
on my limit, but adding the other bag made a great deal of difference.
I think -10°C would easily be doable.

The 0°C bag weighs 500g and the synthetic one just under a kilo - less
than a lot of 4-season bags.

So now I can take one or the other or both, depending on what I expect to find.

 

[treadlightly]

I would argue that it is much better to have one sleeping bag and extend its temperature rating by sleeping in your clothes than having several bags for different seasons.

For instance you can up the performance of a bag by wearing a light down jacket to sleep in which can also be worn outside. So for an extra, say 400g weight you have a ready made bag upgrader plus something warm to wear in the evenings. A much more efficient use of what you carry.

I have a very lightweight PHD bag which was on special offer. Its rating, if I remember, is 10C but I have been comfortable (just about) in it at -3c because I wore lots of clothes. It is very minimalist - no zips even - but I find that doesn't bother me.

 

[Andy2112]

viruskiller,

just a thought, why not use a 3 season bag and pop in into a bivvi bag ?

 

[VirusKiller]

For instance you can up the performance of a bag by wearing a light down jacket to sleep in

I keep forgetting that I have a 550 fill down jacket... It gets a lot of use, but I hadn't given it much consideration for sleeping in!

 

[VirusKiller]

just a thought, why not use a 3 season bag and pop in into a bivvi bag ?

I do have an British Army goretex bivi bag that I'll be using. How many degress do you think one would add?

 

[Andy2112]

I do have an British Army goretex bivi bag that I'll be using. How many degress do you think one would add?

Put it this way mate, after being washed out in my tent at the last midlands meet (mid December) i reverted to sleeping in my bivvi bag (with sleeping bag and self inflating mat) under my tarp fully dressed apart from my jacket and i was toastie. All that was cold was my face. hth.

Andy

 

[VirusKiller]

Point taken. Another reason to go for the 3+ season bag methinks.

 

[Andy2112]

Point taken. Another reason to go for the 3+ season bag methinks.

My bag is a Mountain Hardwear Lamina 32, ie 0c degrees. In my tent i was in it in just my base layer and socks and still had to sleep with my arms out. Coulda been the booze though keeping me warm, lol.

 

[bigbear]

Second all that has been said abope about thin bags, layering and wearing clothes ( esp down jacket) to boost the performance of the bag. Bivvy bag makes a season ish difference IMHO
However, do not forget that the quality of the insulation between you and the ground will make a huge difference to warmth- so a better mat is also a consideration, or put another way, the benefit of buying a more expensive bag will be countered by sleeping on a mat which does not insulate well.

Bigbear

 

[VirusKiller]

Got a Thermarest Prolite 4... I'm beginning to wonder if a three season bag is too much.

 

[Andy2112]

Go for it mate, if your too warm you can always sleep in ya pants. lol

 

[Shewie]

Don`t know if this`ll help or not Joel but I use one of Ians` underblankets just about all year round along with either, a two season Vango synthetic bag that packs down really small or a Snugpak Elite 4 four season for really cold nights.
If I know the night time temps are gonna be fairly mild, maybe anything from 6*c upwards I`ll always take the Vango. If I`m heading up north in winter and there`s a chance it`s gonna get into the minus` then it`s the four season everytime.
I don`t think I sleep particularly warm but I`ve always managed to get a good nights kip, if you want my advice have a look at the underblankets, try and borrow one for a night and see what you think. The difference they make over other methods is unbeleiveable until you try one, I messed about with a thermarests and bivvy bags for ages before getting one. The only bad thing about them is I wish they`d been invented earlier.

 

[VirusKiller]

Ians` underblankets

Have you got a link Rich?

 

[Shewie]

Try doing a search Joel there should be loads including a couple of group buys by Ian (Wanderingstar)
If I`ve got it right, Ian had them made up in batches originally by Snugpak and then sold them through the forum. I believe Snugpak still produce them and distribute through a couple of retailers.

Lurch definitely stocks them ....

http://www.lakelandbushcraft.co.uk/acatalog/Snugpak.html

They`re not cheap, but incomparison to a high end sleeping bag they`re only about half the price and much better suited to hammock camping.

 

[VirusKiller]

Ahhh. Wanderingstar. Got it, thanks.