Foraging / surviving from the land

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Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
533
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Foraging for food

I think as a whole we all have an interest in foraging as it becomes hand in hand with our basic bushcraft skills and whilst out at a bushcraft meet on the weekend we had several discussions on the limits we go to to test our level of skill and one comment in particular struck a cord with me which was

"I do not believe it is possible to realistically or sustainably forage for our food in this part of the world in this day and age "

Well this got me thinking as my first reaction was that the very pleasant guy sat next to me was being very close minded ,but upon reflection I realised that he did in fact have a valid argument on a certain level and I have over the last few days asked several similar minded people of there views on the same subject( bushcrafters) .
My conclusion was that although the people whom I was having the discussions with we're effectively seasoned foragers none of them indeed had the needed skill/ knowledge to actively sustain themselves so I be decided to put down a few of what I believe to be the basics of which the modern take on foraging has neglected to portray

Firstly , our seemed to be preferred forage is the edible greens 'bush salad'of which I have no doubt we all regard as foraging and with this skill we will then be able to live of the land and its my opinion that commercialisation of foraging has made us believe that this is the case and here In lies the danger of over confidence
Although greens are a good part of the sustainability they are far from the needed intake we require to live and if we are honest with ourselves as singe people we are only able to identify a small handful of edible plants and flowers from the thousands available in our immediate vicinity and this is generally down to our natural instinct of self preservation and knowing that there is a veritable minefield of poisonous goodies out there
Some of which are in fact edible in one season but poisonous in others and if like me you do not have an encyclopaedia for a brain it is at this level things come to a crashing stand still and it is at that point we start to question if we have the skill to survive independently in that situation well I'm hopefully going to share some average mans pointers to help .
We get our energy from carbohydrates so your salad which has just used up your energy to replenish isn't going to get close to replacing it we need more
And unless you are foraging from a bin at the back of your local supermarket you need to know where to find them . As you live now your energy comes from things like pasta , bread , potatoes and your not likely to find those in a foraging situation so here are my easy spot carb givers

A, burdock ( dig the root good reward for your efforts ) please remember when ever you dig for root follow the plant down from the stem to prevent eating the wrong tuber
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B ,acorns these need to be prepared ie leeched to remove as much tannic acid as possible and then crushed and cooked ( very labor intensive and results can variety in taste from tree to tree in my experience
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C,pignuts although small rewards high in carbs ( note more nutritional value cooked )
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D cattail , starch rich rhizomes highest return for work available in the uk
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We also have a lot of seasonal wild foods which make our sustainability easier in certain times of the year in the uk that's obviously our native fruits and nuts these give us wider scope to stock foods for the periods that foraging is difficult my favourite way to preserve my fruit harvests are to make pattys along side the jerky when the effort has been made to make a dryer I have found that you need a greater amount of solid type berries such as hawthorn or rose hipp to the amount of more palatable berries such as blackberries ,strawberries but a mix is defiantly needed as the pattys are far to tort for my taste
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Protein is the second subject and although we can forage some protein from plants inevitably meat is needed and this is where most of us will fail due to short thinking or our inability to see past what we deem as acceptable

So in the uk we have the obvious small game but unless we are secure and have the factor of time to find suitable grounds to hunt this can be almost impossible so we would turn to road kill every year in the UK,(158) 3 million pheasants, 800,000 rabbits, 50,000 deer, squirrel and badgers, as well as 25,000 foxes are killed on our roads that's a lot of food but how many of us would regard this as food ?
Then we have fish and not are perception of fishing either to make this work the sport element of fishing needs to be removed or your output will outweigh your return and render the exercise pointless ,nets and traditional traps are the best as if working give results for a small return remembering trout and salmon although very nice are probably not within reach but in the uk we have no poisonous fish so a very effective 2ltr bottle trap is going to catch fish which are very small and best eaten in numbers but will give you a very wholesome boost image.jpgimage.jpg


Learning that the parts that in a normal situation are discarded are some of the most nutritious bits is also important remember eat first Heart,kidneys,liver they hold great nutritional value and deteriorate the quickest
Also a fact to keep in mind is that rabbit and other critters which are easily hunted are lean meat and our body is unable to process the meat quick enough to be of sole value so the innards are needed to sustain us as stuffing on lean meat will not satisfy us for long in fact it will lead to protein poisoning giving you severe headaches ,fatigue and diarrhoea this is because our kidneys can not process urea in large amounts leading to urea and ammonia in the bloodstream this is commonly known as rabbit starvation or fat hunger

So the real lesson is small quantities of each group trying to cook them as often as possible and common sense will enable you to put in place a routine it is the short term which is difficult but with planning and strict discipline you will become acclimatised to any surrounding and with each passing day you will gather the knowledge and skills to improve your standing as our ancestors did thousands of years ago
 

Elen Sentier

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Very interesting, Mouse, and just where my current musings are taking me. Paul Kirtley's short talk on just this subject was very interesting and he seems to have a deep knowledge of the subject. I was very interested in what he said about on "rabbit starvation" and now you're talking about it too :). Looking fwd to more ...
 

Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
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Paul is unlike me defiantly an encyclopaedia on foraging and a nice guy to did you take part in one of his courses ?
 

Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
533
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I'm not sure i agree it to be a beginners plant I've only harvested it once and it was real hard work and I only recommend things I know are doable
But your right it's packed with carbs just very small roots
 

Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
533
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I've also made a rookie mistake and neglected to mention the value of insects maybe ill add that in later "sorry" :eek:
 

xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
We are losing our knowledge of what can be harvested from below ground. My area has enough wild parsnip to keep me in carbs indiffenantly. There is a period about nowish that they are woody and pretty unpleasant but then there the starts of seeds of a large variety of dicots and grasses. I wonder at the value of fat hen seeds, considering the nutritional value of quinoa is so high. There isn't a lot of fat on wild meat unless you have a goose.

RM made more work of acorns than it is. Acorns are still less work then any modern staple grass grain I have ever tried making flour from, and they are safer, in my opinion.
 

spiritwalker

Native
Jun 22, 2009
1,244
3
wirral
shore foraging is rewarding and indeed why our ancestors were always close to the coast easy pickings. Also the reason it worked in the past was that we worked in groups maximum yields for shared effort.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,715
1,961
Mercia
"I do not believe it is possible to realistically or sustainably forage for our food in this part of the world in this day and age "

I think that's a pretty accurate statement when applied to the population as a whole - there are far too many people for it to be sustainable. There is of course a legal dimension as well - fish traps are illegal in fresh water as is using the roots of burdock, pignut or bulrush without the landowners consent.

So whilst your list does show that the species do exist in the UK, it isn't realistic or sustainable for even a significant subset of the population to exist solely on foraged foods.
 

Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
533
0
Radstock
We are losing our knowledge of what can be harvested from below ground. My area has enough wild parsnip to keep me in carbs indiffenantly. There is a period about nowish that they are woody and pretty unpleasant but then there the starts of seeds of a large variety of dicots and grasses. I wonder at the value of fat hen seeds, considering the nutritional value of quinoa is so high. There isn't a lot of fat on wild meat unless you have a goose.

RM made more work of acorns than it is. Acorns are still less work then any modern staple grass grain I have ever tried making flour from, and they are safer, in my opinion.


I agree rm did use a technique which was labor intensive but I believe that he choose that method purposely
I have made simple flour and my favourite is acorn coffee

And my i be so bold as to ask if it is possible to post me a small cutting of your wild parsnip as we don't have it locally to my knowledge and I keep a cuttings book I will cover postage of course
 

xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I think that's a pretty accurate statement when applied to the population as a whole - there are far too many people for it to be sustainable. There is of course a legal dimension as well - fish traps are illegal in fresh water as is using the roots of burdock, pignut or bulrush without the landowners consent.

So whilst your list does show that the species do exist in the UK, it isn't realistic or sustainable for even a significant subset of the population to exist solely on foraged foods.

There lies the problem. The carbs, the filling foods that aren't just saled greens are under ground, permission is required. Fair dos i can totally understand why there is law against digging holes in land that isnt yours, and taking away whole plants that arent yours either. I have permission to get parsnips and bulrushes as they are pest plants, but other plants is another issue. The knowledge is getting lost of what can be eaten, and how it is eaten. Hogweed root was used as a food in the past, some how. Whatever I do with it, it tastes vile no matter.

I do think it is possible to survive in britain just eating wild food, it would be just be a boring diet with not a lot of time left for other stuff in life.
 

Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
533
0
Radstock
I think that's a pretty accurate statement when applied to the population as a whole - there are far too many people for it to be sustainable. There is of course a legal dimension as well - fish traps are illegal in fresh water as is using the roots of burdock, pignut or bulrush without the landowners consent.

So whilst your list does show that the species do exist in the UK, it isn't realistic or sustainable for even a significant subset of the population to exist solely on foraged foods.

It's a misconception that we as an island could not sustain our own country if left to fend for ourselves as people have a narrow vision of us living as our ancestors did only eating native plants but infact this is not the case we as in man has changed the geography of our isles in such a manor that that would not be the case we are infact able to produce enough food to support the population with ease it is the other required aminities we do not have which would cause problems

But that's a thread for another day my thread was about pushing our skills as an individual in our immediate location to limits by sustaining ourselves by foraging

The bigger argument I'm happy to post a separate thread on with propped statistics :)
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,715
1,961
Mercia
I'd love to see your statistics - I have done the maths and the research myself - including trying to live self sufficiently, growing our own food, cutting our own wood and all the rest - I simply do not believe the available amount of useful land can support our population in anything but a subsistence manner at best and in reality probably not even that. I'm all in favour of foraging although I'm not sure what "pushing our skills to limits" implies - certainly we should not break laws or steal and that does rule out taking any plant roots, rhizomes or tubers, hunt or trap game unless the person is lucky enough to own a large plot of land or is friends with someone who does.

I wholeheartedly agree that maintaining a knowledge of wild plants is a useful thing to do by the way - as is a good knowledge of hunting and trapping (within the law).
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
What we need is a volunteer, who's well trained to go and try and live off the land for a month. I'll donate a pound to charity for every pound in weight they loose. If they try it in winter I'll give two pounds.
 

Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
533
0
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Yes and am going on the Elementary in Sept. He's been most helpful to me in lots of ways and is an encyclopaedia, as you say :). If he did a foraging course I'd be on it like a shot!

Your lucky I haven't had the pleasure of one of his courses only his company as an individual but he is a very gifted guy and its his mental perception that is quite addictive as he has a never ending apitite for knowledge he will show you a good time I'm sure
 

Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
533
0
Radstock
What we need is a volunteer, who's well trained to go and try and live off the land for a month. I'll donate a pound to charity for every pound in weight they loose. If they try it in winter I'll give two pounds.

I would be more than happy to be guinnipig with this as I've done good periods of time allready actually recording what it takes would be very interesting whilst studying my chosen project was self sufficiency and I found it fascinating I'm allready training for a charity event in February of next year but will defiantly be willing to give this a go
 

calgarychef

Forager
May 19, 2011
168
1
woking
It would be a lot easier to forage here and survive than in parts of Canada. There's no end of rabbits for easy pickings either, I know they lack fat but it would be easy to get all of your daily protein. Couple that with the fact that there are green plants year round and you've got a place to survive.
 

Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
533
0
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It would be a lot easier to forage here and survive than in parts of Canada. There's no end of rabbits for easy pickings either, I know they lack fat but it would be easy to get all of your daily protein. Couple that with the fact that there are green plants year round and you've got a place to survive.

You pay expenses and ill give it a go lol:yelrotflm
 

skate

Nomad
Apr 13, 2010
260
0
East Devon
Interesting discussion. I will stick my head above the parapet and confirm it was me who made the original statement to Mouse040. I based my belief on the fact that you will not always catch animals every time you try to and that once you have foraged all the suitable plants in a given area you will have to travel far searching for more. All this means more energy is used than gained. One week of rain (not uncommon in this country) is enough to dampen anyone's spirits and reduce their foraging capabilities. There is also talk of various processes for preparing foraged food which again uses lots of energy.
Maybe by poaching and stealing crops you could give it a good go but that's naughty :cop:
The Winter would prove very difficult even in our climate.
Would love to be proved wrong but many have tried and failed.
 

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