Realities of Going Primitive

[Lostdog]

I am going to read it mate! I have a book suggestion for you too:
Get " A new earth" from eckhart tolle. Thats the way to change your mind!
A new earth

cheers
Abbe

Abbe,

That books looks interesting. I will add it to my extensive "To buy and read" list!

Just reading the reviewers comments on Amazon reminded me of "The Miracle of Mindfullness" by Thich Nhat Hanh. He is a vietnamese buddhist monk who in his book explores the importance of living in the moment.

Hope you enjoy Ishmael.

 

[Abbe Osram]

Abbe,

That books looks interesting. I will add it to my extensive "To buy and read" list!

Just reading the reviewers comments on Amazon reminded me of "The Miracle of Mindfullness" by Thich Nhat Hanh. He is a vietnamese buddhist monk who in his book explores the importance of living in the moment.

Hope you enjoy Ishmael.

LOL you are killing me mate, another book onto my list. LOL

//Abbe

 

[Lostdog]

Sorry Abbe, I'll stop mentioning books now!!!

I've just ordered "A New Earth".

Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[pierre girard]

I've done some reading on this subject (oilpeak) over the last couple of days. Some of the literature is less alarmest than the sources Abbe quoted, but there does seem to be a consensus that oil will peak sometime between now (most alarmest) and 2035 (least alarmest).

There is also a consensus that if oil suddenly becomes unavailable to the common man, it will cause widespread unrest. If it becomes gradually unavailable to the common man, it will be more likely to be taken in stride. There appears to be many variables. Recalling Y2K, I have a tendency to want to go slow and easy with any grand preparations.

At any rate, it certainly sounds like a potential nightmare.

Having been involved in emergency planning on a local level, I've always been flumoxed by the state of Minnesota's plan to ship everyone from Minneapolis/St. Paul up to the iron range, or north shore (where I live) in the case of any large disaster (atomic bomb - etc.). I wonder if oilpeak riots would fit into their scenario.

Just how they think all these people are going to be fed and housed is beyond me. I would think the western or southern part of the state, where they at least have a lot of grain, would be more appropriate. There just isn't any infrastructure - or food supplies - here to deal with one or two million extra people.

In the meantime, I will be taking some slow and easy steps to safeguard my family and look to the future.

PG

 

[BOD]

It saddens me to think about how much waste, reliance of fossil fuels etc. goes on in other country, especially in the far east. I suppose it is up to us to set a good example.

They are following our example and have been doing so for at least a hundred years.

Even if a minority of Western activists have a conscience the behavior they see demonstrated by the West obliterates that small voice. Our leaders political and business are focused on trade and the so called free markets that have destroyed their traditional ways and they are constantly being urged to emulate us.

The voters in the West are no better. There is a green conscience but when push comes to shove most people opt for consumption based lifestyles.

In much of the Far East people, other than the silly urban nouveau riche, have bush craft skills of some sort and in a crisis will be better off than most Western city dwellers.

It is also not true to say there is more waste in the East. In the West it is not so apparent. If you spend time here you will see how the poor scavenge discarded material and recycle it. Yes there may be mountains of rubbish, as in Manila, but it is used as a resource and people live there. In the West we just spend more resources to bury or incinerate it.


We hide and put away what we don't like to see including our parents when they get old.

Even with fossil fuels the US is still the leader in consumption

 

[torjusg]

I've done some reading on this subject (oilpeak) over the last couple of days. Some of the literature is less alarmest than the sources Abbe quoted, but there does seem to be a consensus that oil will peak sometime between now (most alarmest) and 2035 (least alarmest).

There is also a consensus that if oil suddenly becomes unavailable to the common man, it will cause widespread unrest. If it becomes gradually unavailable to the common man, it will be more likely to be taken in stride. There appears to be many variables. Recalling Y2K, I have a tendency to want to go slow and easy with any grand preparations.

At any rate, it certainly sounds like a potential nightmare.

Having been involved in emergency planning on a local level, I've always been flumoxed by the state of Minnesota's plan to ship everyone from Minneapolis/St. Paul up to the iron range, or north shore (where I live) in the case of any large disaster (atomic bomb - etc.). I wonder if oilpeak riots would fit into their scenario.

Just how they think all these people are going to be fed and housed is beyond me. I would think the western or southern part of the state, where they at least have a lot of grain, would be more appropriate. There just isn't any infrastructure - or food supplies - here to deal with one or two million extra people.

In the meantime, I will be taking some slow and easy steps to safeguard my family and look to the future.

PG

Good to see that you are researching the subject, it is a very important issue. I discuss PO quite a lot on peakoil.com and it seems as consensus has moved a lot only in the last months. Both governments and big PO figures seems to have become less optimistic as leaks and governmental reports indicates that the peak is either passed or very close.

And have you heard about the housing bubble? Another economic implication that, along with oil prices and debt, in my opinion will contribute to total devastation of US economy within very few years. And what will the gunwielding, consumerist psychoes (I am only saying that some Americans is like that) do then? Blame the government of course. Civil war will be next.

Unfortunately, the rest of the world is pretty much totally dependent on US economy and many will follow in few years (UK, probably being one of the first).

Torjus Gaaren

 

[pierre girard]

And have you heard about the housing bubble? Another economic implication that, along with oil prices and debt, in my opinion will contribute to total devastation of US economy within very few years. And what will the gunwielding, consumerist psychoes (I am only saying that some Americans is like that) do then? Blame the government of course. Civil war will be next.

Torjus Gaaren

Well, I don't know. The future is not easily discerned. I know a lot of people who own guns, and none of them fit the rest of your description. Just remember - what you see on the evening news about the US has little bearing on who we really are. In any society, it is the unusual (the psychos) who make the headlines. If they weren't unusual - they wouldn't be news.

PG

 

[torjusg]

Well, I don't know. The future is not easily discerned. I know a lot of people who own guns, and none of them fit the rest of your description. Just remember - what you see on the evening news about the US has little bearing on who we really are. In any society, it is the unusual (the psychos) who make the headlines. If they weren't unusual - they wouldn't be news.

PG

Well, as I said. I only mean the minority and probably to an equal degree in most other countries. But in a crisis, extreme points of view easily starts to dominate.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Abbe Osram]

I've done some reading on this subject (oilpeak) over the last couple of days. Some of the literature is less alarmest than the sources Abbe quoted, but there does seem to be a consensus that oil will peak sometime between now (most alarmest) and 2035 (least alarmest).

There is also a consensus that if oil suddenly becomes unavailable to the common man, it will cause widespread unrest. If it becomes gradually unavailable to the common man, it will be more likely to be taken in stride. There appears to be many variables. Recalling Y2K, I have a tendency to want to go slow and easy with any grand preparations.

At any rate, it certainly sounds like a potential nightmare.

Having been involved in emergency planning on a local level, I've always been flumoxed by the state of Minnesota's plan to ship everyone from Minneapolis/St. Paul up to the iron range, or north shore (where I live) in the case of any large disaster (atomic bomb - etc.). I wonder if oilpeak riots would fit into their scenario.

Just how they think all these people are going to be fed and housed is beyond me. I would think the western or southern part of the state, where they at least have a lot of grain, would be more appropriate. There just isn't any infrastructure - or food supplies - here to deal with one or two million extra people.

In the meantime, I will be taking some slow and easy steps to safeguard my family and look to the future.

PG

Hi Pierre!
its important to collect many sources here is another very good link.

Oil Drum

please get yourself Jared Dimonds "Collapse"
Collapse

cheers
Abbe

 

[ilan]

I unfortunatly think the world is heading for major problems but global warming will be our downfall the world population is increasing at an alarming rate. A rate which cannot be sustained . Increasing tracts of virgin forest are slashed and burnt for cheap food and fuel production . There are few countries left who could support the population on a primative self sufficiant basis .

 

[gunnix]

Me I also read a lot on the coming problems for civilisation.

I think http://www.anthropik.com/thirty are really good info as well (don't forget reading the comments). www.inthewake.org has a good blog and a nice booklet.

Just like Abbe I would recommend anyone to read Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs and Steel" and "Collapse" .

I also found Ishmael, Daniel Quinn a very nice read.

I'll get that book from eckhart tolle from the library here, I just saw they got it

------------

Well anyway, my view is that civilisation will collapse. Just like any other creature who doesn't live in harmony with it's surroundings we will be forced to go live in harmony or die off.

I also think the collapse will be soon and fast. Just like all other stuff is going so fast in this society, collapse will go too.

environmental problems, peak oil, water running out, metal ores running out, wood running out, good farmland running out (most farmland now is just a layer of oil), overpopulation... A few problems to become big in the next 15 years.

I'm not pessimistic because it's in our (and earth's) best (longterm) that civilisation (industry..) crashes as soon as possible so our children ('s children etc) don't have to live in an almost apocalyptic world.

Yet I don't believe people are that strong to be able to destroy the world anyway. Eventually we're just such a small part of the world.

My answer to this is that I'm trying to learn as much as possible to be able to live with nature. To be able to live sustainably. It would be ideal to live in a small community of like minded people.

I think Spencer and Darwin's "survival of the fittest" was quite wrong, it's clear that cooperation is just (if not more) as important to survival.

 

[ilan]

unfortunatly the world is on a knife point and man is able to over balance it . Once our climate starts to change we will not be able to stop it . What we have seen in recent years will be mild to what is to come . Even if we were to live in a more primitive / sympathetic way we cannot turn the clock back . Think you would need somthing like 40 acres of land per person to be self sufficiant and we simply do not have that available

 

[stuart f]

Well after reading all that i'm of to get the rope from the shed,see ya guys :sadwavey: wow heavy man!!! and to think i was having quite a nice day too. Shame really, wifes made a nice bit of supper as well,Prawn cocktail,and i was looking forward to it to, but well never mind,stiff upper lip and all that, Bye folks nice knowing you all. Now then where did i put that shed key :sulkoff:

 

[JimH]

So we wipe ourselves out...

Darwin (or God) can have another go.

BFD. Perhaps they will turn out a less destructive top to the next consumption chain

Jim.

 

[Carcajou Garou]

Another view is that primitive ways while we say primitive are in fact an acquired skill that takes time to not only comprehend but to be able to put in practise with ease and knowledge. Example I seen a back to old days experiment where the participants were using tools that looked like the old ones but really had a different application didn't go well, no real yard stick to measure by. It would take some time to be able to revert back to an older style of living from many points of view, social interaction: in the immediate family, the extended family, neighbours, village etc...Skills that are practical over a period of time and resources, skills being transmitted from elder to younger..... Farming take generations to aquire competant skills in agriculture, animal husbandry etc... Resources to be allocated, by whom? How do we choose a leader? who would be the best in those time? It is a very drastic change of a life style that has not being practised in 100, 300, 500, 1000yrs.
Be carefull what you whish for you may get it.