doomsdayers/preppers

[cbr6fs]

Hi Mark , great thoughts , ( what the hell is "χόρτα" please I need to know! ) I think the idea ref taking a large ship and parking it in the middle of the Humber was not to have the engines all for movement but use it as a mainly static floating base/castle , the position in the middle of the water would make it ( in theory ) easy to defend and the shape of the hull would make it difficult to scale.
I guess the fuel could be used to power a small rib and feed off the reserves for heating the living section of the superstructure.

Anyway , nice to hear this thread still got legs , any different suggestions ????

χόρτα is a mixture of wild picked greens, the ingredients vary depending on the area and season.
Managed to find a list on wikipedia though and being a idle sod i've copied it straight from there.

black mustard, dandelion, wild sorrel, chicory, fennel, chard, kale, mallow, black nightshade, lamb’s quarters, wild leeks, hoary mustard, charlock, Smooth Sow-thistle and even the fresh leaves of the caper plant.

These are then boiled it's then usually dressed with olive oil and a bit of lemon.

It's actually pretty tasty and really good for you, obviously being a Brit i have it with chips and bread lol
Plus as i say the Mrs's Mum can go up on the mountain with a small knife and a bag and come back with a full meal that cost nothing.

It's really cool speaking to her as i say when she was a kid they lived 99% off the land.
A few years the crops failed and many in her village starved to death, it was also very very tough during WWII and even more so during the Greek civil war as if any "rebels" or soldiers passed through the village they'd have to feed them.

There were 9 kids and they all slept in 1 room using hay as bedding at night.
Cloth was bought in in exchange for produce and the village seamstress then made everyones cloths, a cobbler fixed and made shoes.
Hunters would go out and bring back game, and share that with the village in exchange for either veg, clothes etc etc.

During the olive harvest everyone would chip in and help everyone else, so Kostas would help Adonis bring in his Olives, then Adonis would help Kostas later.

100% of their water was from the village well or the river as there was no running water, gas, electricity etc.

Very very tough life, but i'm in no doubt that if needed most of the older generation Greeks from rural areas would be able to survive off the land if the entire system shut down tomorrow.



Cheers
Mark

 

[Qwerty]

Ocean going yacht would be a major fail. You really can't carry much food or stores on those boats; what do you do when the stores run out? No space to grow any more and you can't live off fish alone.

Tell that to Bernard Moitessier who spent 10 months sailing non stop one and a half times around the world in the late 60s.

Small boats are ideal for evading detection, look at the long tradition of smuggling in Europe, from booze to narcotics. Plenty of remote bays and inlets that are only readily accessible by boat along the coast and that's before you start with small islands.

 

[bilmo-p5]

Tell that to Bernard Moitessier who spent 10 months sailing non stop one and a half times around the world in the late 60s.

Small boats are ideal for evading detection, look at the long tradition of smuggling in Europe, from booze to narcotics. Plenty of remote bays and inlets that are only readily accessible by boat along the coast and that's before you start with small islands.

That's ok for a solo escape/survival, but when you add a wife & a sprog or two, the space & consumables requirements increase exponentially

 

[TeeDee]

That's ok for a solo escape/survival, but when you add a wife & a sprog or two, the space & consumables requirements increase exponentially

Indeed. And your not creating anything that is slightly sustainable for the longer term , Ok , I doub't that its possible to grow 100% of your food requirements but at least with whats been discussed you would be minimizing how much of the pre-fall stored food you'd be consuming.

In the case of Bernard Moitessier his destination and food requirements were already calculated and consumed to a finite point , but what if you didn't know when you could stop evading??? How are you going to grow food unless you make land fall????

 

[bilmo-p5]

... but what if you didn't know when you could stop evading?

...then you would have to read,

Survive the Savage Sea

 

[gliderrider]

I think your best bet would be on a remote area of land. A scottish Island, or the coast would be great.

 

[cbr6fs]

Absolutely no doubt you can "Survive" on the ocean, some Survival stories are truly epic and a testament the determination and resourcefulness that some of our species can draw on.

To me though there is a vast difference between surviving and having a reasonable long term quality of life.
To do that then you need to have a food and water source that's sustainable.

Sure you can use a desalination system and if need be fish for food, desalination systems would not be a long tern solution though as parts like membranes, filters, UV bulbs etc will all need replacing over time.
Likewise living purely on fish over a long period of time will give serious health issues (scurvy anyone?).

It wouldn't be as bad in a fresh water lake, but out on the oceans even IF you had enough space to grow fruits, veg and raise life stock your going to need a LOT of fuel to get enough fresh water to water these veg, fruits, cows, chickens etc.

 

[rik_uk3]

TeeDee has it right.

If it were me, I'd moor the big ship (well, board one that is already moored there) in a tidal estuary and rig some tidal generation gear - nothing major, just looking for a few kWs. Enough to power motion sensors and lights, so anyone trying to board would be detected, and you had lighting 24/7.

Ocean going yacht would be a major fail. You really can't carry much food or stores on those boats; what do you do when the stores run out? No space to grow any more and you can't live off fish alone.

Where do they sell those? Have you installed them before? How many people does it need to install them? Where does the power go before you plug your laptop in? What distribution equipment do you need for that? Where do they sell it? Have you installed it before?

To be honest the whole 'growing food on the deck of a boat the crew gave me' is a tad hard to take onboard (excuse the pun) but drifting off (excuse the pun) into the word of "I'll just fit a tidal generator" is pushing reality a tad do you not think.

 

[bilmo-p5]

You got it, Richard.

Spot on.

All this, 'take over a ship moored in the Humber', lark, is just that; a lark.

A dull November afternoon daydream - nothing more.

 

[mrcharly]

"I'll just fit a tidal generator" is pushing reality a tad do you not think.

I'd build it . . . .

Really, if I couldn't cope with make a basic flow-by waterwheel and gearing it up to an alternator (might have to rewind the alternator to be efficient at lower revs), then I may as well give up. As for "where does the power go?" - into batteries, of course. Now, managing the power charging cycle is actually quite difficult - but it so happens that the chandlery in Hull stocks electronic charge management systems. Or I could just use the one I installed on my barge. Or build my own from electrical components, the kind of components found in all cars.

None of what I have described is more complex than things I've had to do while living on a boat, or repairing a car.

Persuading a crew to join in with living on the boat and running it could be difficult, I admit.

 

[cbr6fs]

If the worst did happen then i still think boats would be extremely useful.

In the weeks after any disaster big enough to bring the world into even more chaos it's in now, i'd really want to be out of the way of most folks for a few months.
Rioting, looting, murder and general lawlessness would no doubt take over until things settled out.

The unprepared would panic and decide to rob those that had made some basic plans, these unprepared people would need to be dealt with.
If you we off shore for say 3 months then i'd guess that the unprepared would be dead either from starvation or murdered by others guarding their property.

Nothing in the way of evidence to back this up, but i'm sure that without electricity, running water, sewage treatment etc etc we just couldn't sustain a population like we have now.
In a city like Athens with 6 million people living here where would all these people get their water and food from?

I'd estimate that at least 1/2 would die within the first 3 months.

Personally i'd want my family and loved ones as far away as possible till a stable sustainable population was achieved.
So up to 6 months on a boat although not sustainable sounds like good common sense to me.



Cheers
Mark

 

[gliderrider]

Even so, living like kevin cosner in waterworld is a little apealing, even for a land lubber.

No, man has evolved to live on land, feed off the land etc, the sea might be a good supplemnent to forraging and subsitence farming, but long term, you needto be ashore.

 

[salan]

We prep. But to my mother in law (who is in her late 80's), al we are doing is what everyone did when she was a child. You always stocked some supplies in just in case.
Thats what we do. I don't think about the whole world going up in smoke etc. Theres (IMHO) no point.
But we do have power cuts, we do get supply failiures and shops etc can shut. illnesses and bad weather can stop us going shopping for a while, so we keep stock. I collect stoves and we go camping etc so no prob there.
We do have a generator, but to be honest, I am thinking of getting rid of it due to lack of use. I have plenty of other ways to generate power for the things I need. We often go to camp sites that have just a water tap and waste point. So We are used to providing power for radios, computers etc. We could do this for a month or so without making any changes. Food wise, we have emergency stuff and stock. Between them we have sufficient.
Water again we have filtration (of various forms) and whilst we could do with more storage, we could last a few weeks as is.
But as has been aready said. Its mindset that is the most important. How to adapt.
I run some survival forums and whilst guns are spoken about, it is from the 'sport' point of view mainly. that and general countryside life.
Oh and I do NOT own any cammo stuff! lol
Alan

 

[santaman2000]

I have a mate in the US that is mega into this prepping since hitting civvy street.

We've had many a chat over it as his tactic is to store as many guns and ammo as legally allowed...

It would be interesting to see his collection. "As many guns and ammo as legally allowed"? There is NO legal limit on either. I own 13 guns and an unknown quantity of ammo; and I'm not even a survivalist. I just like hunting and shooting. And that's what I own NOW. It doesn't take into account a like number (or greater) that I've sold or traded in the past.

 

[Laurentius]

It would be interesting to see his collection. "As many guns and ammo as legally allowed"? There is NO legal limit on either. I own 13 guns and an unknown quantity of ammo; and I'm not even a survivalist. I just like hunting and shooting. And that's what I own NOW. It doesn't take into account a like number (or greater) that I've sold or traded in the past.

The point is however when T**** there is going to be no law at all so where does "legally allowed" come into it?

 

[santaman2000]

The point is however when T**** there is going to be no law at all so where does "legally allowed" come into it?

Agreed. But my point was that "legally allowed" doesn't even come into it NOW when there is law. I could have 70 guns...80guns...or even several thousand guns and a warehouse full of ammo; if only I could afford them.

 

[rik_uk3]

I'd build it . . . .

Really, if I couldn't cope with make a basic flow-by waterwheel and gearing it up to an alternator (might have to rewind the alternator to be efficient at lower revs), then I may as well give up. As for "where does the power go?" - into batteries, of course. Now, managing the power charging cycle is actually quite difficult - but it so happens that the chandlery in Hull stocks electronic charge management systems. Or I could just use the one I installed on my barge. Or build my own from electrical components, the kind of components found in all cars.

None of what I have described is more complex than things I've had to do while living on a boat, or repairing a car.

Persuading a crew to join in with living on the boat and running it could be difficult, I admit.

Show me, show me links on how to do all these things? Reality check, it would never happen. Its a nice dream, nothing more, but these dreams and their ilk are common on prepping sites and can turn a casual browser off thinking about real life and what they should be prepping for. In reality we face things like a volcano causing a nasty extened winter, perhaps a dirty bomb which in reality would be little more than inconvenience in a small(ish) area, bad winters as seen in the UK for the last two years where the supermarkets don't get supplied and of course an economic meltdown where food becomes too expensive to buy for a while.

The power management system on your existing boat would in all likelihood melt when you start pumping the amps you'd need to run even 'small' ship.

Prepping is a solid, common sense approach to living in the 21st century but lets keep our feet firmly planted in reality.

Lets say you have the 'big death' that only leaves half a million in the UK, the ideal of the noble hunter gatherer won't really work, what you going to live on? sheep et al. Nobody on this forum could last a year now in the UK without resorting to barter or stealing crops and it won't get better until you get a community up and running if the mush hits the fan, when you may have the luxury or growing crops and tending livestock, preserving food and most importantly the pleasure of leisure time only a group can give; "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" etc.

Sorry for the rant, I'm back off to bed.

 

[BoonDoc]

Subsistance survival is possible near the sea. There was some PhD type who counted up all of the nutrients that can be found at the seashore in a 1 meter by 1 meter by 1 meter cube of sand. He found more protein in that one cubic meter of sand than in a complete cow.

That is not including seaweed which is quite delightful. Nor is it including fish.

Let the mad, zombie hords fight each other in the midlands. For those of us who live by the sea we have a supply of food ready to eat.

 

[BillyBlade]

Subsistance survival is possible near the sea. There was some PhD type who counted up all of the nutrients that can be found at the seashore in a 1 meter by 1 meter by 1 meter cube of sand. He found more protein in that one cubic meter of sand than in a complete cow.

That is not including seaweed which is quite delightful. Nor is it including fish.

Let the mad, zombie hords fight each other in the midlands. For those of us who live by the sea we have a supply of food ready to eat.

Could I see a link to that research please?

 

[TeeDee]

Could I see a link to that research please?

Yes please. Me to.