Caravan gas bottle in cold weather?

[johnnytheboy]

Just wondering if anyone had any tips to solve our problem.

Our shoot caravan sits outside in a pretty cold area that never defrosts, we had some seriously cold weather last year and couldnt get the gas working right, almost like there was no pressure from it. When we shook the bottle it seemed to liven up for a couple of minutes but nothing worth talking about. I dont know if calor gas would freeze or not, but it certainly seemed to be a real issue getting it going!!

 

[nuggets]

wrap the bottle in insulation , them camping stoves act the same in cold weather !!- the cold must reduce its volume -thus reducing the pressure in the bottle !!! Or is it just the regulator freezing up ?????

 

[g4ghb]

is it butane or propane? - propane will work better in low temps than butane

edit - calor butane is blue, propane is a reddy orange

 

[Limaed]

Are you burning just Butane? Butane performs poorly in the cold, so if you can get the Butane / Propane its better although still not fantastic in extreme cold.

 

[johnnytheboy]

Blue one!! I think thats propane!!

Nuggets think you might be right, the pressure maybe reduced due to the frozen gas! dont think its the regulator though!

 

[Teepee]

Calor gas(butane) is useless at low temps, it stops vapourising. A common headache with gas in the winter unfortunately.

Unless you switch to propane which will still work at low temps, you need to keep the gas bottle warmer and at above about 5C.

Have you got electric? An IR bulb on an inspection lamp will keep it warmer but youll need to put some insulation on the bottle too, maybe build a wooden insulating box for it.


Whatever you do, be careful dude!

 

[g4ghb]

If it's calor and blue then its butane. They wil exchange types when you go to 'refill' but you will need a different regulator. As far as I'm aware most caravan systems will work with either quite happily but i'm happy to be corrected by someone with more experience!

 

[woodspirits]

presuming youve got propane and not butane the only thing you could do is treat it as you would a standpipe and thoroughly insulate the bottle including the base, take it off the cold floor. or if you have constant power, which you probably dont, install a heat belt around the bottle.

 

[johnnytheboy]

We are in the middle of a forest so there is no electric!!

LOL this could be interesting heating gas :-D we would go with a bang thats for sure!!!

 

[rik_uk3]

Propane only, butane is crap in even cooler weather.

 

[wingstoo]

Even propane will freeze, but usually only when drawing off huge amounts, if you can get a propane bottle and regulator and then protect it from frost with whatever means you can, how about a box with the bottle inside and on a couple of 2 X 2 timbers and fill the voids with sawdust to at least 2" thick all around, keep it in a wind free place and if you can find one get a 12v heater strap and possibly some low volatage trace heating wire for the gas line.

How about getting a spare and keeping it inside the van and swap the bottles over if the one freezes

 

[Andy BB]

Propane should be reasonably fine down to -10C - certainly worked for our trailer tent when temps dropped as low as -20C in the german mountains (and our underfloor heater was using it as well as the stove). Butane becomes ineffective as you approach 0C.

On bike rallies in the past I have known folks urinate into a can and put the butane cylinder into it to get it to work! (Failing that, borrow some warm water off a buddy with a paraffin/petrol or alcohol stove!)

 

[bb07]

Propane should be reasonably fine down to -10C - certainly worked for our trailer tent when temps dropped as low as -20C in the german mountains

Propane shouldn't give any problems until the temperatures start getting down into the -40 range. Much colder than that and the bottle will need to be heated. People working in the bush here will usually heat the bottle with a tiger torch http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjumfIPbeyws5r8MY8agUqLRSfTedrIu3fc8xra0OKzs5V1iH7_A
The flame is very weak at these low temps but of course increases as the bottle is heated. Often it's the regulator that causes the trouble when it's very cold. Heating the regulator can help solve flow problems. Propane itself doesn't liquify until -45F, so I can't see propane being what you have.
And no, heating the bottle in extreme cold is not dangerous. It's only heated enough to get it flowing again- the bottle never actually gets hot. Even gasoline doesn't burn well when it's that cold!

 

[johnboy]

Just wondering if anyone had any tips to solve our problem.Our shoot caravan sits outside in a pretty cold area that never defrosts, we had some seriously cold weather last year and couldnt get the gas working right, almost like there was no pressure from it. When we shook the bottle it seemed to liven up for a couple of minutes but nothing worth talking about. I dont know if calor gas would freeze or not, but it certainly seemed to be a real issue getting it going!!

The bottle you have as others have said is Butane and Butane does not like to vaporize in temps much below 5 degrees centigrade.

Insulating the bottle is not the answer. LPG relies on ambient heat from the atmosphere to warm the cylinder and it's contents and allow the liquid LPG to vaporize. If you insulate the cylinder you insulate the cylinder from any ambient heat that is available.

The example stated of a propane cylinder freezing up is due to the fact the vapour draw being asked of that particular cylinder is exceeding the ability of the surface area of the cylinder to transfer ambient heat to allow effective vaporization. If you run a whacking great appliance on too smaller cylinder it will freeze up even in warm weather.


Also if the regulator is freezing up you need to ensure the regulator is sized correctly for the draw off the appliances are generating.If you have appliances that need 3kg / hr then it's no good running a 2kg/hr regulator.

Running your caravan on propane ( red calor bottles) is the answer. Propane happily vaporizes at much lower temps as mentioned.

However you may need to ensure that whatever appliances you are running have the correct injector and aeration sizes to burn propane cleanly. A quick check with a gas fitter would be advisable. He'll also advise on the pressure and capacity your current regulator is giving and if it's sized correctly.Applying direct heat to LPG cylinders generally is a no no.

HTH John

 

[johnnytheboy]

Some good advice, thanks guys!!