New knife advice sought please

[ChrisW]

It's time to get a new knife to replace my F1 (snapped, batoning, my bad) and I'm looking at getting an Helle.

I've had all my tang related questions answered by reading a thread dedicated to the subject, which was great.

I think the only question I have left is regarding blade size and what effect, in any, it has on general use.

I like the look of the Helle Fire and the Helle Fjellbekk. The Fire has a shorter blade (the size I often think of when I see the term 'necker' used), and the Fjellbekk a longer blade. Basically my choice comes down to me looking at Helle's website and thinking 'ooh, those look perty'. Nothing scientific at all.

I'm interested in knowing what people get from shorter blades. They seem popular as a secondary knife.
Does anyone use a shorter blade as their main / only knife? Are there any reasons to avoid a shorter blade for regular use?

I will only have one fixed blade knife though and it will get used & abused for all sorts of things, so I spose I'd be better off getting it right.

 

[Xunil]

First, I'd like to congratulate you on being one of the few people who have managed to break an F1

Getting whatever you like is normally a good starting point since personal preference plays a very large part in how comfortable you are in using a knife.

That said, the F1 is deliberately (and massively) overbuilt to make it seriously strong and tough - if you broke one I suggest you look at changing how you work, either by examining your batoning technique or invest in a mini-axe or hatchet to do that sort of work and use your knife as nature intended.

Blade length, other than in very particular work, is largely academic. If you examine Scandinavian knives their blades tend to be around 3 inches or so as a rule, and often between 2 and 3.5mm thick. I own a Helle Polar which I could easily use as my main/only knife, despite its small size and my large hands.

Knife size really comes down to how you use it - there isn't a whole lot of difference in use between a 3" or 4" blade, but if you double the blade length (just for the sake of discussion) you really see changes in how the knife works and you have to shift your approach accordingly.

...I will only have one fixed blade knife though and it will get used & abused for all sorts of things, so I spose I'd be better off getting it right.

I am tempted to suggest another F1, purely because you aren't going to find anything stronger in a hurry unless you shift to carbon steel (carbon steel is far, far stronger than stainless as a rule of thumb), and if you really use the knife hard it makes sense to go with the toughest knife you can find. Some of the Ranger, RAT and Ontario knives are also seriously built, and Cold Steel do their San Mai knives which may be worth a look. The RAT RC-4 for example, is a little tactical looking for some but it is about as tough as a factory knife can be.

Much as I love Helle knives if you plan on kicking the tar out of it you are likely to be disappointed. I would say the same of pretty much any manufacturer's knives. The harder you push the greater the likelihood of failure - they are wonderful working knives but I can't imagine any of them competing with an F1 for overall brute strength - they are (as most knives are) intended as slicing tools, at which they excel. If you want to go with Helle (I can recommend their knives wholeheartedly) I think you ought to re-examine how you work with your knife and look to include a good folding saw or mini-hatchet in your pack, to avoid the same fate as your F1.

Me ?

I'd go for something in A2 carbon steel or in differentially heat treated 1095 - if you want tough, that would be the way forward, but no knife is indestructible.

Good luck finding something suitable.

 

[John Fenna]

I cannot add to the previous post but would like to congratulate you on breaking an F1!
What were you batoning through and with what did you hit it?

 

[Chris the Cat]

BRKT Bravo 1 ( nice one for sale over on BB at the mo! )
Built like a tank, not a million miles away from an F1 !!
( Come on, seriously, you didn't realy break an F1 battoning did you !! ??? )
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
My best.
Chris.

 

[Siberianfury]

yeah bark river bravo one would be a brilliant choice for a tough allaround knife

 

[Graham_S]

How on earth did you manage to break an F1?

Seriously, I'd love to know how that was done.

 

[Frederick89]

You can take, as suggested, another F1, a Bravo-1 or a differencially heat treated carbon steel blade. Personally I'm with this last option.

 

[ChrisW]

I'd rather not talk about it in public* but it's safe to say that I've examined the way I used the knife and believe I can identify the two points in time that lead to me breaking it.

As far as using a Helle, or any other knife, like that again then I can safely say that I won't be. I've learnt my lesson the hard way.

If F1's really are bomb proof (and if I admit that it was my own fault that caused it to snap - God, this is like being at a self help group. "Hi, my name's Chris and I broke my F1!") then there's no reason not to get another.

It may be practical that for occasional, and varied, use the F1 would be a solid reliable choice. However, I suspect that relying on the overbuild (right word? Probably not) of an F1 would not be a good thing to do. Other knives are obviously more than capable given the limits of what they're built to do. I just need to use mine within those limits.

I didn't buy an F1 originally because I wanted a pry bar with an edge, I bought because I'd read good things about it and I liked the look of it. Price was also a factor, not having the sort of money to spend on a knife from an artisan builder or the RM shop.

Now that I'm in the market for a new one though I'm thinking that I would like something else, something a little more ... refined? The F1 was a grand tool, doing almost all that I asked without complaint, but for certain things I felt I could have done with something with a little more finesse. Carving was okay (at best), except when it came to the fine detail (when it was no good), and I found feathering sticks hit and miss with such a thick blade with a convex edge. I guess I'm ready to move on from a knife built with survival in mind to something more craft and utility oriented. I suppose that's something I didn't appreciate when I bought the F1, but do now.

It's interesting to know that the blade size isn't really a practical obstacle.

Does that mean that 'neckers' usually have smaller blades just for the practicality of it being carried around the neck? Why do people get them then? If it's as simple as appreciation of a certain form (*cough* kit tart *cough*) then fair enough - we each enjoy our own indulgences (mine would lie in the form of fishing flies - I've got far too many for either my own or the trout’s needs).

Chris

*but seeing as I'm amongst friends...
Whilst camping last summer I attempted to try and split off some wood from the edge of a section of discarded trunk that was around 10 inches long, 6 inches in diameter and very, very hard. What it was I couldn't say, but I gave it my best shot. And lost. All so I didn't have to leave the campsite and drive to the nearest garage to buy another bag of kindling so the kids could roast some marshmallows on a little fire in the BBQ. Which I ended up doing anyway.

I suspect that I caused a hairline crack in the blade when I was trying this.

The knife was used occasionally during the next 5 months. Now, the rubber handle in the middle of the knife was not sealed properly. This rubber became unstuck within a few weeks of getting the knife, but I wasn't really bothered by it (a mistake perhaps). I suspect that when I cleaned the knife some water ingress under the handle may have caused the hairline crack to corrode. These are only suspicions of course, and I base them on how to blade looked when it snapped.

All it took then was to get to a point where the forces involved were too much for the strength of the blade at that point. That came late last year when I was dismantling some pallets to make some planters out of. Some of that pallet wood is very hard wood indeed. All it took was for me to try and split something wholly inappropriate with the knife, as it was to hand, instead of popping in the garage and getting something better suited and ... * SNAP *. Lesson learnt.

 

[Lee Wright]

I find more often than not 4" is bigger than I need for general use after using a Mora 511 for the last 3 years. The next knife I buy will be 3" blade length, 2-2.5mm thick and handle length and profile similar to said Mora. Battoning for me tends to be used for splitting 2" or so diameter sticks down into kindling then anything after the kindling gets snapped and fed straight onto the fire in ascending size (if It's dry...)

Nothing really constructive, just another view! On another note I am trying to phase in a Victorinox Solo but find the handle a little small for heavy work, willing to alter my technique though as it will allow me to get by with a completely legal (for all areas) knife.

 

[Xunil]

Don't worry - it's our little secret and we won't tell a soul...



If you want to dip a toe in Helle's waters you could do worse than look at the Harding, Eggen or Fjellkniven, in about that order of preference. Those three offer a lot of knife for the money in very useful and usable designs - the Harding and Eggen in particular are very comfortable in the hand.

If you don't mind your budget going up a notch you could check out the Helle Temagami, which is an absolute delight to use and excels at everything. It has to be about the easiest knife to use I have ever tried, by a very long margin.

Hard to beat either the Harding or Eggen as a general purpose outdoorsy 'do anything' knife.

Don't forget that you can buy many of Helle's models as bare blades and handle them yourself if you have specific requirements in mind. Last time I looked Helle's fantastic little Polar blade was only about £15 to buy on its own, which has to be the bargain of the century for what it offers you.

 

[Chris the Cat]

I agree with the comments Xunil makes about Helles ! However ,would it seems , from what you say at the off, that you are dead set against them ! ? ( hope I got that right ? )
Plenty of very , very good makers here at BcUK or over on BB.
Ask what ever questions you would like of them and their wares, you will get some very good feed back and advice .
Would I be right in thinking that you have MORE to spend on a knife this time around than the price of a new F1 ?
That may change things abit.
My best.
Chris.

 

[brancho]

show us some pics of the F1

Is it salvagable?

I only held one for 5 minutes and decided it was far too heavy for my liking.

 

[ChrisW]

Oh, go on then...

 

[Xunil]

:yikes:

 

[Shinken]

Do you wanna sell the broken knife to me?

I can make something out of it.

 

[ChrisW]

Do you wanna sell the broken knife to me?

I can make something out of it.

What, a four inch knife shaped nail.

 

[Xunil]

I can see an F1 based folder project there, for someone with the inclination to play

 

[FGYT]

I would contact Fallkniven and see if they want it back to look at, not a demand a Refund letter more of is this right
i still dont see without a really serious abuse you would have snapped it ( ie hammer it into a post with a sledge and hit it sideways with same sledge probably several times )

ATB

Duncan

Duncan

 

[ChrisW]

I contacted them when it happened. They didn't want to know. They quoted the proper legal situation in that I have privity of contract with the person(s) who supplied it to me, which is fair enough I suppose. I think it was about to run out of warranty so I didn't push it. I got it from Trueways and now they've ceased their online shop business I guess I'm out of options.

 

[Shinken]

I guess I'm out of options

Sell it to me