Help! - Soft/Hard woods for Bow & Drill

[Paxo]

I am going into the woods at the weekend to try my first attempt at starting a fire with a bow and drill. I know that it needs lots of practice but to prevent me from making some basic mistakes and to stop me geting lots of blisters and pulling my hair out, maybe some kind person with more experience can advise me.

I have been looking at various books (SAS survival Handbook - Lofty Wiseman) and he suggests using a hardwood spindle (drill) and a softwood base. In other sources it suggests two softwoods. The main softwood in my area is pine but that is resinous and surely hard to light using friction methods. What should I use? All Hard or all Soft wood? Pine aor not?

Thanks

Paxo

 

[jdlenton]

have a look here i did a search for bow drill and there's loads of reading in the data base. Personally I'm a Hazel drill Ivy hearth and green anything (favorite being oak but that's just picky) bearing block kind of chap.

James

 

[Ogri the trog]

I am going into the woods at the weekend to try my first attempt at starting a fire with a bow and drill. I know that it needs lots of practice but to prevent me from making some basic mistakes and to stop me geting lots of blisters and pulling my hair out, maybe some kind person with more experience can advise me.

Thanks

Paxo

Paxo,
Whatever you're going to use, for your first time, get it in the airing cupboard now - it'll need to be drier than a dry thing.
I'm not saying that you won't do it but you'll seriously enhance your chances if you do.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Paxo]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll try hazel spindle and lime baseboard - and get them really dry! I believe ash and holly wood can be used green on fires so maybe its a good combo - the holly in my garden has very striaght branches which are ideal for the spindle.

 

[bushtuckerman]

Holly and Ash burn well green due to chemicals in the sap, and if they are wet they won't allow much friction. Best stick to dry wood for friction firelighting. I haven't used pine but i'm pretty sure it can be used, i think most resin runs in the sapwood so carve it off maybe? Any set made of the same wood, and better the same branch, are likely to work well, due to their surfaces being similarly rough (not exactly the same remember because the grains of each piece run at 90 degrees to each other). I get on well with willow for the bowdrill technique. If you are having trouble finding dry wood search the trees rather than the ground, dead wood is sometimes more scarce on the limb but is almost always dry at the core.

you'll be addicted at the first smell of that smoke! good luck.

ian

 

[susi]

I have been looking at various books (SAS survival Handbook - Lofty Wiseman) and he suggests using a hardwood spindle (drill) and a softwood base. In other sources it suggests two softwoods.

Apologies for raising an old thread but I have the same question and search a threw this up.

So which combination do you guys have most success with:

Hardwood Drill, Softwood Hearth - as per Lofty's SAS book

or

Softwood Drill & Hearth - as per Ray's book


(I have had limited, vaguely smokey success with both )


As a side note, I'm more inclined to trust Ray's words as Lofty's book contains some errors. Not intending to try and be clever, but these 3 I remember:

- an error on temperature (can't remember the exact context)
- incorrect labelling on his "navigation using the stars" diagram
- the pictures of wild strawberry and cloudberry are labelled the wrong way round

(After noticing the last one, I've decided to invest in some specific books, rather than trust his images of mushrooms )

 

[IntrepidStu]

(After noticing the last one, I've decided to invest in some specific books, rather than trust his images of mushrooms )

Always a good choice Susi. The more focused the book the better.

 

[Joonsy]

Hello, same wood for both drill and hearth, sycamore is good, ivy very easy if you can find a straight piece, look for those trees surrounded with thick ivy the straighest pieces tend to hang down like vines, important for drill to be straight and dry, i think a lot of failures come from the bearing block creating too much friction, to help with this as you are learning cut a depression in your bearing block and insert a bottle-top like one of those from a sterilised milk bottle or similar from a beer bottle, the serrated edge of bottle top will hold it in place and make a dent in the centre to accept drill, this will dramatically reduce friction at bearing block and make success far more likely, you can then experiment without bottle-top for effectiveness. For your bow get some of that ''pull-cord'' that is fitted to chainsaws/lawnmowers etc:, it is very tough cord, stuff like paracord tends to wear out through heat generated friction too quickly, i attach cord to bow with a ''gripping sailor's hitch'' (like icicle hitch but better), great knot for sideways tension on a spar (your bow). Wishing you success.

 

[andyn]

neither combination is the CORRECT way. Is there such a thing with friction firelighting, or with many many aspects of bushcraft?? I personally don't believe there is.

There are misprints in Ray's books just as there are in many other books. This doesn't devalue their content. Just make sure you double check your sources.

Experiment and Practice and you will find what woods and what technique suits you.

Personally, and the woods I use for demos and teaching is a Willow hearth and a Hazel spindle. But also have all Willow and all Hazel sets that work really well too. I sent a tried and tested Sycamore and Hazel set to one of the members on here, Matt Weir, and I believe he is getting good embers from that. I also like using Red Cedar Heath and Hazel spindle.
For bearing blocks, I have Holly, Alder, Antler, Stone, Brass

So as you can see there are many density combinations that can all work. So it all goes back to experiment and practice.

Good luck.

 

[andywinkk]

willow on willow every time for me,

 

[susi]

Up here, I'm mostly limited to:

Scot's Pine
Norway Spruce
Birch
Aspen
Rowan




(I always thought it was leather on willow )

 

[crazyclimber]

I've only tried (and been successful - eventually!) with hazel / hazel, I too put more faith in RM's books, I first learned the basics of morse code from Lofty's book quite a few years ago only to find later that some of it was wrong. Oh plus I like looking at the pictures too...

 

[Bernie Garland]

I'm a great believer in a poplar hearthboard and hazel drill.

Bernie

 

[EdS]

willow and willow.

But there again living next to field of short rotation coppice I've got more straight willow that you can shake a stick at

 

[andy_e]

I'm a great believer in a poplar hearthboard and hazel drill.

Bernie

I've had good success with that combo too, and also with a poplar spindle on lime, willow, sycamore and poplar hearths.

I find a good hazel spindle will work with most hearths, but as has been said already I think it all comes down to practice, perseverance and technique.

 

[Matthew.Passmore]

I find lime & Willow the easiest, especially Lime on lime.

 

[andyn]

The only other thing I will add is that its all very well having a "favourite" combination, but be sure to practice with different materials, as you can't carry a hazel coppice aound with you, so sometimes, as in Susi's case the preferred and favoured materials might not be around you. Mind you its all very well if you are just playing in the back yard etc

Susi, you maybe able to find Alder growing in wetland areas, around lakes etc if some of the other mentioned trees don't grow in your area. Alder on Alder works perfectly well.

 

[fred gordon]

- the pictures of wild strawberry and cloudberry are labelled the wrong way round

Wow, if that had been fungi it could have proved fatal!!!

 

[lostplanet]

I've had good success with that combo too, and also with a poplar spindle on lime, willow, sycamore and poplar hearths.

I find a good hazel spindle will work with most hearths, but as has been said already I think it all comes down to practice, perseverance and technique.

There's a lot of help there, once you have cracked it you will appreciate.

First time I tried a few weeks ago it took me more than 3 hours to get near smoke. The next day i cracked it after about another 2 hours.

what I learnt from this is Its a Quality thing more than quantity. Technique! Technique!
I used willow on willow, I had a hearth that was half circle so it kept rolling around under my foot on it lol, the bow string was too tight and kept pinging off whenever i got near to smoke.
it was a comedy or errors! Think i would of got an ASBO for the noise it was making! But eventually by looking at what i was doing i had managed to jam the bearing block against my shin and loosened the cord and controlled the tension with my fingers when needed. It actually sounds like you are getting good grinding friction (it's a sound that sounds right although you've never heard it before) and I kept going for a good 1 minute after i got reasonable smoke. And presto the coal was there, I managed to get it to flame with some cotton wool and magazine strips.

If you could do something the hard way, I picked it those 2 days.
So it's not necessarily what you have but how you do it. Heres the kit i used.







I must have lost half a stone that first day!!

 

[susi]

Susi, you maybe able to find Alder growing in wetland areas, around lakes etc if some of the other mentioned trees don't grow in your area. Alder on Alder works perfectly well.

Yes, we do have Alder here, will give it a try.