Bushcraft too popular?

[GreenmanBushcraft]

I’m all for education of our natural world, but I do agree that bushcraft has become a little too popular for the wrong reasons. I feel that many people partake in bushcraft as it’s all too often confused with something it’s not (survival and escape and invasion, etc). Some of these people IMO give true bushcraft a bad name as they run riot in our green spaces, cutting trees, having fires and littering everywhere! It’s the same with fishing. You get your small groups of ignorant people who don’t really care what they do and how many traces they leave behind. I often find signs when I’m out, such as birch trees with knife marks on them where someone without a clue has tried to make a birch bark containers, and basically left the tree to die.

I find shelters that are in nature reserves, nothing wrong with that if you do no harm and take them down afterwards. But people forget that these attract other people and can even kill animals if they collapse.

Fire sites are another thing I often find. Bushcraft has been commercialized a little too much, and the nearest thing I can compare it to would be (modern) carp fishing. I’m all for bushcraft expanding, but for the right reasons and it needs to be set apart from the likes of Bear what’s-his-face who just promotes shock factor survival which is NOT the same thing.

Just my 2p’s worth on the subject. Good post by the way.

Kris

 

[ArkAngel]

In my opinion both Eds and Wayland make some very good points.


To be honest i have probably never done "true" bushcraft. I was an outdoor type kid as far back as i can remember. My main inspiration was my Grandfather who it turned out after his death was one of David Stirlings "originals" (ask a military type on here if you don't know what that means!). His 'Leave no trace' approach was founded in the 'Leave a trace and get killed' ethic taught in the military.
I haven't camped out for weeks or done major expeditions, but i enjoy what i do wandering around the countryside taking pictures with the occasional mountain thrown in for good measure.
Like most on here i could cry at the state i find things. Dog poo all over the place, cans of beer and pop bottles, crisp/fag packets. In Glencoe this year the popular items seemed to be disposable barbcues and energy bar wrappers. If these things give you so much energy would it be too much to ask to put it in a pocket and struggle along with an extra 0.5g untill you reach a bin?

A general collapse of common sense and the "do it yourself" ethos is my opinion. People think the world owes them something, or someone else will do it. It's a sad state of affairs that this seems to have happened in my lifetime (about 30 years) people have become self centred, rude, full of their own self importance, ignorant, rush around becoming bad tempered at everyone in their way. People just look miserable. This is not just a practise of the young either. At the shop where i work i would say only about 20% of the customers are pleasant and civil and articulate. Most just grunt or throw items at you without a word and that spans all age groups.

I do not know what the answer is (for bushcraft or the country in general). How do you instill a sense of pride in a nation? How can you make people to want to change their ways? (a paradox in itself). The bods in westminster tell us we have never so good. I'm afraid i don't agree.

I tend to keep myself to myself and stay out of history's way

 

[rik_uk3]

'Leave No Trace' ? Not really going to happen, you will always impact on the countryside to some degree, the lesser is the better. Lets say you go for a walk in the woods, you see a clear spot, obviously already used, what do you do, hack down a new clear area, or use the already used area. You would more than likely go for the established area (if the area was done well in the first place), and rightly so, after all, why take down more foliage or bushes, trees etc. The problem then arises in that this area will slowly get bigger, slight damage will get deeper as more people use it.

Its at these moments when your awareness of your surroundings become vital in maintaining these areas and controlling the loss. Leave No Trace, thats a hard target to achieve, but one well worth trying for

Just my pennies worth chaps and lasses

 

[gorilla]

i'm in agreement with all the good points raised so far.
as i see it, the explosion in the media of related programming - RM, BG, LS etc have obviously sown the 'bushcraft' seed, albeit more often under the banner of survivalism. Bear grylls and Les Stroud have come in on the back of RM, and in both of their shows (whatever you may think of them) survival is the buzz-word - i have seen very little promotion of LNT in either show, and in the context we are discussing neither shows have any relevance.
in media terms, RM is the forerunner, and apart from Country Tracks, has done precious little to promote the ethics he lives by. after endless series' of 'extreme survival and world of survival, we've had 'bushcraft' but in other countries, and finally the taste sensation that was 'wild food' - any mention of LNT - not really.
don't get me wrong - i love his shows and greatly admire the man, but given the problems highlighted in this thread, maybe it is time for him to stop jetting round the world to dazzle us with fluffy speeches about the beauty of the veldt and tribal oppresion, and to make a back to basics series about practising what we know as bushcraft in the uk.
hammocks, tarps, safe and responsible firemaking, shelter building etc - not only the techniques, but how/where to do it responsibly, the importance of LNT, reinforcing the fact that the onus is on all of us to treat our countryside with respect.
in a sense, to train the monster he has helped create

 

[Nightwalker]

It is a worry. With no true fix in sight; I thought what might help. Maybe if all Bushcraft related media that was created from mainstream Ray Mears to the brilliant free work Andrew Price does on A-Z Bushcraft vids, there could be a short disclaimer at the end of EVERY show. A bit like on dangerous shows you might get "Please dont try this at Home" followed by a hefty disclaimer. But this would take less, at the end of every production a short 10 second clip saying roughly "Please remember to respect the natural-world; leave no trace and let those after you enjoy the environment as you did." Shown in both text and audio, a tip for the stupid of the general populas perhaps! Im sure if this type of thing was included in all bushcraft-related-productions anyone who bothered to watch would soon learn this ethic is a predominant thing and greatly increases the change of them taking eade.

My rant about mess?.. well echoed a lot of what you have already said, but something that really gets me angry; Dog mess in bags hanging from trees! I dont get it, its bloody disgusting and everywhere on common walks that would otherwise be beautiful. I dont get it, people must take their dog for a walk, thinking in advance to take a bag to clear their dog's mess, and then must not like carrying the mess so toss it into a tree/bush/hedge, bloody disgusting and I tell you what I would honestly rather see dog mess on a path infront of me than to see it bagged up hanging from a tree where it wont decay for a good year or two, hanging there in all its glory At least on the path its returned to the earth in a week or two. One beautiful walk I took through a new wood, common dog-walkers tracks, 1.5-2miles perhaps, by the time I got back to the car I counted 14 bags of mess hanging from trees/bushes, unbelievable.

 

[stuart f]

Hi folks, thanks for the replys,looking through the replies it seems that we are assuming that the mess often left after people, has been from ill taught kids,but when you look at it the majority of the contributors on here at least are 20years and upwards,so i don't really think it all the fault of just kids. I still think that Bushcraft may be shooting itself in the foot by steam rolling onwards and maybe not emphasizing the LNT philosophy enough.

May be Dunc is right and it just going through a fashionable faze and at some point it will just ease back to a core of people that are genuinely interested in the WHOLE aspect of Bushcraft.

I also agree that the mess left in the countryside is not all the fault of misguided bushcrafters either, but i was just going by the thread that Dave put up,as you can see the site looked as though its been people trying out the skills they have either read about or have seen on tv .

The answer? I'm still not sure!

 

[spamel]

I strongly believe that if a person gets caught leaving dog mess behind, they should lose the right of dog ownership forever. If everybody had a dog and let it crap all over the place, we'd be neck deep in dog eggs in no time!

Plastic bag trees are a British phenomenon. I never saw this in Germany, but along almost every motorway or country road in Britain, you will see a plastic bag tree. The filth and detritus is strewn all over the place.

I would love to see Ray doa britain based series showing how he does things, projects he does whilst out and how he manages his waste and fire. The disclaimer would be better placed at the beginning as most people would be in the kitchen outting the kettle on by the end of the credits, if not channel hopping!

Good ideas though.

 

[Cairodel]

Just my 2p worth, but I think a lot of the answers (or some, at least) are right there in your
post, Tom.
With all the "Bushmoots" going on around the country , are they publicised other than
on here...?????
If they were known about more widely, and there was an "open welcome", don't you think
this would be one way of helping to alleviate the problem, increase membership here and
generally improve our collective reputation..???

I have to say that I'm a little disappointed at the lack of reaction to my previous post...
My point being that members here have the know-how to help teach at said "bushmoots"
and perhaps send invitations to schools, youth centres etc...etc...etc...
Instead of discussing the ills, and seeing no way ahead, members here have the
wherewithall to spread the word/educate, unless, of course they are only interested in
their own "forays" into the wild.
Perhaps BCUK clubs/clubhouses could be set up in a number of places all around
the country...???
Or am I being too much of a "perfectionist", and members want to keep things to themselves???

 

[Shewie]

I for one hadn`t really heard of Bushcraft as I understand it now until about 8 or 9 years ago, obvious exceptions were indigenous tribes people and ancient hunter gathering methods etc. Coming from a mountaineering / wild camping background I just found the whole experience more pleasureable being under a tarp rather than stuck in a tent. Then learning about other techniques I succumbed to the bug ( not a bad thing in my opinion !) Then slowly a whole different interest came to light as I discovered shelter making, firecraft, cooking,& safe water etc. Some people don`t know anything else and are brought up in a rural/woodcraft enviroment and are generally fortunate to have a country life and many of the things discussed on here, they do day in day out. To others it`s basically a hobby. If the newbie/armchair/townies are the ones trashing our countryside then lets hope they eventually get a grip and learn to respect the nature around them.
I don`t think there can ever be to many "Bushcrafters" as long as they learn the etiquette ( can`t spell that word in a million years) and genuinely practice what they preach. It`s a great way to look at life after all. It`s those a-holes who are doing the sh1t things we all see, who will try it once and not bother again. I would agree that there is a lot more exposure to "roughing it out" on telly with RM etc virtually being on a loop on some channels at least once a week. But, I don`t think that somebody is suddenly going to decide to start sleeping out in the woods every week if the have no previous similar interests. Kids have always built dens in the woods and folk have always camped out let`s hope destructive bushcraft it is a bit of craze and will soon go away.


Rich

 

[deepcmonkey]

I am afraid it doesn't matter what you do you will always find kno##ers in any hobby/interest that spoil it for others. As long as there are the good folks like you/us on here we will have to just do a little tidy up as we go along.

I also think sometimes people often leave behind maybe a fire pit, shelter etc.. as they think they may well be doing some one else a favor or something. Myself I dont build any shelters etc..as i feel there is no point in taking down trees when I have a perfectly good basha, but to each their own.

I feel Ray does mention a lot in his programmes and books about country side etiquite, I guess the people that dump crap every where just aren't listening.

I was actually on my friends farm with my Dad today, just did some very basic stuff, fire, food etc.. on leaving though after emptying one of my water bottles on the ashes about a litre I think I did a further 2 trips to the stream to collect more water to place on the ashes and then we both observed the wet soggy mess for about 30 mins before a final tidy. I also burnt in the fire all the pot hangers etc.. that I had made as I hate to see shrapened sticks lying around.

I am sure every one on here does the same if not more, I am lucky as I use a private wood so there is no rubbish there any way.

I just dont think its to much to ask to tidy up after yourself, why cant the kn##bers do it.

 

[Mikey P]

Plastic bag trees are a British phenomenon. I never saw this in Germany, but along almost every motorway or country road in Britain, you will see a plastic bag tree. The filth and detritus is strewn all over the place.

Because plastic bags are not free over here. You pay for them at the till. As you probably did yourself, we carry a few bags around in the car for when we go shopping. Would it work in the UK? No - people would actually abandon the shop (Tescos, Sainsburys, Morrisons, etc) that tried to charge them for each bag.

Sad.

 

[Wayland]

I have to say that I'm a little disappointed at the lack of reaction to my previous post...
My point being that members here have the know-how to help teach at said "bushmoots"
and perhaps send invitations to schools, youth centres etc...etc...etc...
Instead of discussing the ills, and seeing no way ahead, members here have the
wherewithall to spread the word/educate, unless, of course they are only interested in
their own "forays" into the wild.
Perhaps BCUK clubs/clubhouses could be set up in a number of places all around
the country...???
Or am I being too much of a "perfectionist", and members want to keep things to themselves???

The Moots are organized by Tony and the team while the Meets are informal gatherings organized by the membership for their own pleasure.

As far as the meets go they are normally on sites that need someone to take responsibility for the behaviour of the people present.

The very last thing we need is an inundation of the special brew brigade at such events because we would very quickly run out of places to meet up.

While we may recruit a few new members and teach a few neds something about the outdoors, I think we would damage our cause far more by association with elements we would have no real control over.

One trashed scout site = no more meet ups.

 

[swagman]

Sadly guys the sort of people who drop litter and leave rubbish as they have done at the
campsite canot be educated it doseant matter what you do at the schools or at
bushmoots . We all know from an early age to drop litter is rong and if people are doing it still its because they dont care not because they are not educated.

Maybe they should have a litter hotline were as if you see some one droping litter or throwing it out a car window you can report them and they can get a heafty fine and 20 hours litter picing.

Tasmania has a dont wast Tasmania campain going on as it has for at least two years
but we still get idiots droping litter.

 

[Cairodel]

As far as the meets go they are normally on sites that need someone to take responsibility for the behaviour of the people present.
One trashed scout site = no more meet ups.

Perzackelly my point, Wayland.... INVITED groups that the BCUK members would have
control over, maybe persuade them to take an interest and even GET INVOLVED...

 

[Dougster]

Sadly we live in a vindictive society and this wouldn't work. We can't hand out a fine for littering unless two coppers have seen it together.

Someone would get cut up by a car and report them for a minor offense to get at them.

 

[Jedadiah]

Perzackelly my point, Wayland.... INVITED groups that the BCUK members would have
control over, maybe persuade them to take an interest and even GET INVOLVED...

Del,

i hear what you are saying, but some of us go into the woods to get away from the trials, tribulations and rigours of the world outside. The last thing we would want is for some gang of surly teens who don't want to be there getting up to mischief with knives and fire starting equipment in an area we would probably regard as bordering on the sacred.

If they are interested, they would probably find out about this site or an existing organisation like the Scouts. By all means publicise the site and others like it, but persuading people to do something they don't want to is the buisness of governments and p*ss pot dictators!

 

[spamel]

Plus, there would then be a liability in case somebody hurt themselves, we'd probably all end up getting sued! No thanks, I'll stick to meeting me mates in the wood, discussing techniques and swapping stories and getting completely pished!

 

[Mang]

Maybe it is time for him to stop jetting round the world...and to make a back to basics series about practising what we know as bushcraft in the uk.
hammocks, tarps, safe and responsible firemaking, shelter building etc - not only the techniques, but how/where to do it responsibly, the importance of LNT, reinforcing the fact that the onus is on all of us to treat our countryside with respect.
in a sense, to train the monster he has helped create

From mainstream Ray Mears to the brilliant free work Andrew Price does on A-Z Bushcraft vids, there could be a short disclaimer at the end of EVERY show...."Please remember to respect the natural-world; leave no trace and let those after you enjoy the environment as you did.

I would love to see Ray do a Britain based series showing how he does things, projects he does whilst out and how he manages his waste and fire.

I think I've posted this elsewhere but I videoed a lot of the RM 'Tracks' slots and it's great watching-I agree that as good as the overseas stuff is there's so much UK stuff still left (not to mention his and the film crews' carbon footprint!).

A disclaimer would be a good idea but also to be fair Ray his done some projects that have needed trees chopping down**-One that springs to mind is a Spruce(?) shelter. latterly the macho guy in the wildfood series was too...

**I have got huge respect for the guy and this isn't a pop at him, just pointing it out!

 

[stuart f]

Hmm a difficult one for sure,may be we could have a sticky made up for all to read about the ethics/ethos of leave no trace,but that would be up to Tony as its his site after all,again there is no guarantee that people will take heed but at least it would be something rather than nothing at all.

 

[Toadflax]

I think I've posted this elsewhere but I videoed a lot of the RM 'Tracks' slots and it's great watching-I agree that as good as the overseas stuff is there's so much UK stuff still left (not to mention his and the film crews' carbon footprint!).

Having seen the Tracks stuff for the first time only very recently, I noticed a lot of emphasis (both subtitles and Ray telling the viewer) about leaving no trace, not lighting fires where you shouldn't be doing, etc. This is something that I don't remember seeing in his later programmes. I think it would be a great idea if he were able to, perhaps, redo the tracks series or an equivalent to help get the message across about responsibility.

I know that they mentioned about getting special permission for some of the stuff that they did in Wild Food, but showing things like digging up burdock roots on prime time TV tempts even someone like myself, who believes in 'following the rules'. I'm not even remotely suggesting any form of censorship, but if you show lighting fires out in the woods on mainstream TV, then you are going to get people wanting to copy that. I don't know what the answer is.



Geoff