I looking to get hold of a couple of ground anchors to attach my capstan winch to for pulling logs up a slope. I'll not be pulling huge amounts but I do not have many fixed places to attach the winch to. I don't know much about ground anchors and wondered if any 4x4 bods have any recommendations. I've seen various screw in ones but our soil is quite stony so don't know how well they would work. Anything else I should look at?
Ground anchor suggestions
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Fifty odd years ago
If there wasn’t a big enough tree to anchor our Isaacson timber winches we would excavate a big hole, tie the 15mm (I think) back stay cable around the biggest rock around using bolted compression clips and drop it in the hole. The cable would be run out of the hole through a narrow a slot in the side of the hole.
The bigger skyline winches had concreted back stays.
The problem wasn’t the weight we were hauling.
It was the tension that came onto the back haul cable and the back stay when a piece moving swiftly suddenly dug in and jammed.
Warning - of course they can give way. You need to know your ground, your terrain and your load.
If there wasn’t a big enough tree to anchor our Isaacson timber winches we would excavate a big hole, tie the 15mm (I think) back stay cable around the biggest rock around using bolted compression clips and drop it in the hole. The cable would be run out of the hole through a narrow a slot in the side of the hole.
The bigger skyline winches had concreted back stays.
The problem wasn’t the weight we were hauling.
It was the tension that came onto the back haul cable and the back stay when a piece moving swiftly suddenly dug in and jammed.
Warning - of course they can give way. You need to know your ground, your terrain and your load.
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There is the Plow type. When loaded the unit digs itself further into the ground.
I remember assisting on a climbing rescue (30 years ago); they used two pieces of box metal tube (arm) laid as a V and these arms had 4 giant meatal stakes bashed through the arms. The hinged bit at front of V was then the fixed anchor.
All the Pieces were steel but easily carried and assembled.
Alex.
I remember assisting on a climbing rescue (30 years ago); they used two pieces of box metal tube (arm) laid as a V and these arms had 4 giant meatal stakes bashed through the arms. The hinged bit at front of V was then the fixed anchor.
All the Pieces were steel but easily carried and assembled.
Alex.
What kind of load are we talking about?
We covered ground anchors on the NPTC recovery course and used a number of solutions depending on the load including the plough described above, multiple metal stakes chained together (500mm long and 25mm angle), buried tyres, and various metal plates with shackles attached. All worked well until they didn't. They all relied on being able to dig and bury or drive something into the ground.
For the big 'screw' types you can get driver tools that give you a good mechanical advantage when trying to get them into tough ground - think large tommy bar.
I confess, I've never enjoyed using a plough type anchor. If the ground is soft enough for it to dig in, it's soft enough for it to pull out. Although the angle of load is designed to force it down, it doesn't always work if there are roots or stones in the soil. They worked well in the desert though.
The problem Pattree described earlier is the monumental difference in static vs dynamic loads that you can get when dragging stuff along the ground. In forestry/woodland work we can reduce that risk considerably by using a winching cone on the front of the load and that also reduces how strong an anchor you can get away with.
Probably a lot of grandmas and eggs there - sorry
We covered ground anchors on the NPTC recovery course and used a number of solutions depending on the load including the plough described above, multiple metal stakes chained together (500mm long and 25mm angle), buried tyres, and various metal plates with shackles attached. All worked well until they didn't. They all relied on being able to dig and bury or drive something into the ground.
For the big 'screw' types you can get driver tools that give you a good mechanical advantage when trying to get them into tough ground - think large tommy bar.
I confess, I've never enjoyed using a plough type anchor. If the ground is soft enough for it to dig in, it's soft enough for it to pull out. Although the angle of load is designed to force it down, it doesn't always work if there are roots or stones in the soil. They worked well in the desert though.
The problem Pattree described earlier is the monumental difference in static vs dynamic loads that you can get when dragging stuff along the ground. In forestry/woodland work we can reduce that risk considerably by using a winching cone on the front of the load and that also reduces how strong an anchor you can get away with.
Probably a lot of grandmas and eggs there - sorry
It's not a huge load, with cut logs I fill a small bulk bag and drag it up a slope and I can just about drag it or hold it on the slope myself. At a guess 100kg? Could be more if I'm happy with the setup.
I don't want to dig huge holes or make a permanent point as I'll be winching up from various places.
Permanent skyline is on my list of big jobs in the years to come, I'm after something movable now hence wondering what off roaders might use. I'm ideally after experience as I can search for options but wonder how well they actually work.
I don't want to dig huge holes or make a permanent point as I'll be winching up from various places.
Permanent skyline is on my list of big jobs in the years to come, I'm after something movable now hence wondering what off roaders might use. I'm ideally after experience as I can search for options but wonder how well they actually work.
Well, for 100Kg the screw in and hammer in anchors would work fine. They worked OK on pulling 110 Defenders on the flat (obviously) and gentle slopes but came unstuck occasionally on anything of that weight on 20 degrees or so. But, if you can get them in the ground, you can increase the number in line and chain/rope them together. I pulled my 110 out of a ditch on the Ardnamurchan using 5 of the stakes on the other side of the road - that way the tarmac stopped the first stake leaning out.
Stony ground I would suggest sinking captive steel ground stakes driven with a sledge hammer is effective if a little laborious to set. The MOD does a set of those that can be found on the surplus market. Other than that there are the options boat owners use for the various kind of seabed a plough type might be a good option.
They can, BUT. The trick (not an easy one) is to get equal or near so force on each anchor or what happens is a kind of zipper effect where each anchor tears off one by one and the net effect is not much larger than only one anchor.
On just two anchors it is fairly easy, just a bridle but on several ones it gets slightly complicated.
You often see sets where you have a flat bar with holes in and you hammer in rods though holes in the bar. You attach to the bar which transfers the pull weight to all the rods. My concern here would be not being able to get all the rods in the ground.
I've just realised a few years ago I picked up 4 heavy weight galvanised 1m spiked T-bars as they 'may be useful one day'. They may well have been used for winching winching so I'll have a go with them and see if I can get them in the ground deep enough.
I've just realised a few years ago I picked up 4 heavy weight galvanised 1m spiked T-bars as they 'may be useful one day'. They may well have been used for winching winching so I'll have a go with them and see if I can get them in the ground deep enough.
If you have a chain with big enough links for the metal pegs to go through, put the first peg in, pull the chain tight in the direction away from the load, put the second peg in, and continue, If you pull the chain tight enough the problem TLM describes is rarely encountered; if you 'tie' them together with something with the slightest elasticity, it does.
BTW, those are almost exactly the same as the pegs I use
BTW, those are almost exactly the same as the pegs I use
BTW, those are almost exactly the same as the pegs I use
Do you know what they are called or where they come from? I'm just curious and a google lens search, which is often very accurate, just listed Viking swords...
They are too heavy duty for fencing and the top is reinforced presumably to cope with regularly being hammered in and lifted up. Some form of marquee / large military tent peg sounds more likely.
I'm still curious to know exactly what they were sold for and can't find an exact match. This site shows something similar and the instruction manual gives me an idea of rigging a few up.
Here's a better pic of mine:
I'm still curious to know exactly what they were sold for and can't find an exact match. This site shows something similar and the instruction manual gives me an idea of rigging a few up.
Here's a better pic of mine:
We used something like this (x4) for quite literally nailing down a small Briggs’s & Stratton sledge winch. The haul in cable ran flat along the ground, the load was dragged, not lifted at all.
What angle will your restraining cable/chain be pulling at?
What angle will your restraining cable/chain be pulling at?
…… but not upwards from the anchor then?
You’ll be fine.
You’ll be keeping an eye on it anyway.
In a perfect world you’d have a dead man foot pedal throttle and a clutch lever to the side of the direction of pull but I don’t think that’s relevant.
Oh - you know this already but:
Don’t work alone.
You’ll be fine.
You’ll be keeping an eye on it anyway.
In a perfect world you’d have a dead man foot pedal throttle and a clutch lever to the side of the direction of pull but I don’t think that’s relevant.
Oh - you know this already but:
Don’t work alone.
Is that price for 1 peg?
That's certainly one of the configurations to use them, although we find it easier with a chain to tie them along the floor and make sure your load is at the bottom of the first peg. You can drive them in as far as you like then (though what goes in must come out!).
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