Emergency Bleed Kit

[GreyCat]

I was listening to the wireless, I thing towards the end of last week, the mother of a young teenage who was stabbed in school was interviewed about a charity that she started to fund bleed kits and training in secondary schools.

From what I remember hearing, the training is every bit as important as the availability of the kit.

The other point here being that "run of the mill" knife crime is far, far more likely to cause a bleed injury than a marauding terrorist knife or firearms attack as the latter is exceedingly rare whereas the former is pretty common.

[As an aside. The advice for the latter is "run -> hide -> tell" I.e. run away if you can, hide if not, and phone 999 (on railway an alternative if you cannot make sound when hiding is text BTP on 61016)].

I also am told that different emergency medical responders have different preferences in kits e.g. in response to Martins Law but i have no direct experience there.

I wonder. Are we overthinking this? Someone willing to render basic first aid and call for help is so critical in an era when too many folks stop to film and do that rather than doing the first aid basics......

GC

 

[TeeDee]

The other point here being that "run of the mill" knife crime is far, far more likely to cause a bleed injury than a marauding terrorist knife or firearms attack as the latter is exceedingly rare whereas the former is pretty common.

[As an aside. The advice for the latter is "run -> hide -> tell" I.e. run away if you can, hide if not, and phone 999 (on railway an alternative if you cannot make sound when hiding is text BTP on 61016)].

I also am told that different emergency medical responders have different preferences in kits e.g. in response to Martins Law but i have no direct experience there.

I wonder. Are we overthinking this? Someone willing to render basic first aid and call for help is so critical in an era when too many folks stop to film and do that rather than doing the first aid basics......

GC

I don't care about the individuals motivation regarding those that commit acts of violence with knives - be that domestic ( although that doesn't tend to be premeditated from what I've read ) , mental health support failure ,drugs induced , gang culture ( homegrown or imported ) , religious or political or other

I note overall its on the increase and I think whilst we try to tackle it on the back end with bleed kits, vigilance and medical training ( whilst police numbers dwindle and paramedics are declining ) that maybe we need to also have a look at what is creating the front end statistical increase and take more definite steps to intervene in a manner that yields more instant results.

 

[Stew]

I note overall its on the increase and I think whilst we try to tackle it on the back end with bleed kits, vigilance and medical training ( whilst police numbers dwindle and paramedics are declining ) that maybe we need to also have a look at what is creating the front end statistical increase and take more definite steps to intervene in a manner that yields more instant results.

While I kinda agree, unless we are going to stand for election, etc there is not a lot we can do. Or is there?

 

[TeeDee]

While I kinda agree, unless we are going to stand for election, etc there is not a lot we can do. Or is there?

I know what you are saying , I guess that depends upon your ( and mine ) belief upon the actual voting ability.

If one doesn't vote because they believe its a non-act - its an act of apathy.

I think moderate tolerance is a great ideal.
I also think Over tolerance is a weakness of society.

 

[TeeDee]

Maybe worth inclusion to deter/temp blind any assailant

 

[nigelp]

…..

 

[Herman30]

On the topic of knife attacks; what do you lot think of this idea:
would it be stupid to carry cut resistant gloves? I don´t mean wearing them all the time but having with you. Then one would be able to grab the blade of an assailant without being injured. If there is time to put them on.

 

[nigelp]

….

 

[Woody girl]

Deodorant, de-icer, WD40 , insect repellant etc are all things one ‘might’ be carrying/in car/near front door and ‘pick up’ and use ‘honestly and instinctively’ for self defence in the heat of the moment.

Deep heat or ralgex spray is choking, and very "warm" if it gets in eyes. Those of us with arthritic bones would need to carry a can of spray to ease those achey moments, especially in the winter when it's cold and the ol' bones and muscles are playing up.

I think you can get neck gaiters and long sleeve t shirt type garments made with the same cut proof material as the cut proof gloves.
Don't know how good they'd be at stopping a stab.
Anyone tried stabbing a glove to find out?

A lightweight plastic cutting board a few cm thick, stuffed down the back of a backpack in the pocket you might put a laptop in would protect the back, or be used in your hands to block an attackers knife.

 

[Stew]

On the topic of knife attacks; what do you lot think of this idea:
would it be stupid to carry cut resistant gloves? I don´t mean wearing them all the time but having with you. Then one would be able to grab the blade of an assailant without being injured. If there is time to put them on.

I can see your thought process but I fancy my ability to run over the speed of me being able to put gloves on and then grab a blade.

 

[Chris]

There's a reason that police wear thick kevlar vests and not the thin material used for slash resistant gloves.

 

[Stew]

Maybe worth inclusion to deter/temp blind any assailant

I don't think that suggestion will go down too well at work.....

 

[Herman30]

I fancy my ability to run over the speed of me being able to put gloves on and then grab a blade.

Good for you but I do not have the physical ability to run fast or far. So for me it would be stand and die or die fighting.

 

[Stew]

Considering that a knife can beat a gun in close use, I doubt gloves would prevail.

 

[TeeDee]

I don't think that suggestion will go down too well at work.....

Probably not.

We don't seem very tolerant of anything regarding proactive self preservation.

 

[TeeDee]

Deodorant, de-icer, WD40 , insect repellant etc are all things one ‘might’ be carrying/in car/near front door and ‘pick up’ and use ‘honestly and instinctively’ for self defence in the heat of the moment.

I think if you're already in the mindset of creating a trauma bleed kit ( and the reasons therefore ) I can justify to myself the addition of a legal purpose created spray - if you're reaching for the bleed kit there is a reasonable chance you are GOING to the incident as opposed to dealing with it in a protected environment free of individuals of felonious intent.

 

[Woody girl]

Well, I've put together a kit. Much of which I already had, but had to buy a few specialised items. It's quite expensive to buy those, but I think we are happy to pay out for expensive car/house/life insurance with no problem, I'm regarding this kit as as insurance policy, with the same idea that I hope never to have to claim on that insurance, but its there in my edc if its needed either for myself or others.
Now I just need to get my fa qualification up to date. Until then, I'm taking info updates, and a bit of training from a good friend who is a trained first aider for a large supermarket. It will do for now, untill I can find the course I want. Being out in the sticks with no transport, it's a bit hard to get to course near me, which all seem to be over weekends(no buses on sundays) and start before I can get there, and finish after the last bus home has gone.
Plus they are about 20 miles away, so I'm going to try to get enough locals interested in setting one up locally.

 

[Laurentius]

Cut resistant gloves and sleeves certainly will not prevent a stabbing wound, however you can grasp a blade with cut resistant gloves at least and cut resistant sleeves can be worn discretely and would at least protect your arteries from bleeding out. I am going well into paranoid territory here. I recently purchased a pair of cut resistant sleeves because I am fed up of scratches from tackling hawthorn in my hedge.

 

[GreyCat]

There's a reason that police wear thick kevlar vests and not the thin material used for slash resistant gloves.

Indeed.

Cut resistant gloves are just that, resistant

There's a reason why butchers and meat processors wear chainmail gloves.....

Cut resistant gloves will stop a casual slip with a wood carving knife cutting your pinkies, but the fibres will be cut a bit (DAMHIKT ). They are similarly useful to stop you slicing knuckle open from a glance onto the up facing blade of a vertical log splitting axe.

I have some padded, cut and thorn resistant gloves for hedging, hopefully stop my tendons being severed if I miss with the billhook, they are proper chunky (and expensive although much less costly than a serious hand injury).

If I was grabbing a knife blade being wielded with force and intent, I'd want chainmail or equivalent protection, not a thin knitted cut RESISTANT glove.....

GC

 

[Danceswithhelicopters]

Regarding the incipient move to knife resistant equipment in this discussion the Police will be deploying firearms to deal with the individual. That's how high the risk to life is. Ad hoc first arrivers will be using CS/PAVA, batons and if trained TASER. Defensive shields of various designs will also be deployed.

The current guidance is reproduced below but as an exercise feel free to wear a white paper oversuit and get someone to try and stab you with a red felt tip pen as you plan your knife disarm.

"Run, Hide, Tell" is the official UK guidance for the public on how to protect themselves in the rare event of a firearms or weapons attack. This advice has been widely shared by Counter Terrorism Policing and local police forces.

Here are the three key steps:
Run to a place of safety if you can.
This is a better option than surrendering or negotiating.
Plan your escape route and leave your belongings behind.
Insist others come with you, but do not let their indecision slow you down.
Do not stop to film the incident.
Hide if you cannot run.
Find cover, ideally behind substantial brickwork or heavy reinforced walls, as bullets can go through glass, wood, and metal.
Lock or barricade yourself in a room if possible and move away from the door.
Be quiet: silence your phone and turn off vibrate.
Tell the police by calling 999 when it is safe to do so.
When the police arrive, they will be focused on neutralising the threat and may not be able to distinguish you from the attacker.
Follow all police instructions immediately, keep your hands visible, and avoid sudden movements.
Provide the police with as much information as possible: the location, descriptions of the attackers, types of weapons, and any casualties.
You can find more information and watch the official "Stay Safe" video on the ProtectUK website.