Is "preparedness" a state of mind?

[GreyCat]

I see they are now slowly realising that if they make the solar panels higher, they can grow a limited range of crops underneath. That costs a bit more in metal so greed outweighs other considerations unless the Govt bungs even more money at them, and, requires it to be done.
I do not understand how the ex-Housing Minister, being a (relatively) northern lass, does not understand the impact of building houses on agricultural land.

The ex-Housing minister was a typical urban policitian, and IMO it's an urban vs country thing not a north-south thing. She also came over as a typical labourite who doesn't care where food comes from so long as it's cheap, and who regarded country folk as rich toffs to be squeezed and looked down on. No evidence whatsoever that any of the current government have any more idea of what goes into food production (and distribution) than they have of what goes into keeping the lights on........

I do know a few reasons against railway lines but the roofs I think it is just about the cost vs return if you're not in the electrical generation business.

The main railway one is because of access and the risk of line blockage due to panel damage, be that vandalism, cable theft or natural weather.
Along most railway lines are the nation's broadband and communications infastructure cabling backbone. Any disturbance or damage of those is a very expensive big deal. Generally they do not require any maintenance or access.
Access along any railway is always a big deal and takes a lot of careful planning, even for accidents and suicides (my mate was a signalman, who used to have to literally walk any train thru any incident). There is also a lot of staff training and certs etc. Adding extra solar panel access etc is a step too far and too crowded.
Re roofs, the capital outlay is usually beyond most, and getting a decent grid sale price poor. The good prices have now all gone. A lot of the industrial units are leaseheld, and the landlords have no interest in further investment for a poor return, but will take all or part of any income earnt by a tenant installing it. Somebody I know well is in the generator business and also owns several business parks. If it was worthwhile he would have done it. This also sadly applies to tenanted social/council housing - I looked into it where I lived and the council would own the electricity contract and pay back only a pittance to the tenant.

Plenty of telecoms types have qualifications for access on or near the [railway] line. What's lacking is the access time, hence the need to do any serious work in the wee small hours of the white period or in a possession planned 2 years out...... and of course the under-resourced off-track teams cannot cope with de-veging so the lineside resembles a jungle in many areas.........

Its also a concentration thing. You want to be able to put a bunch of solar in a place together where you get short feed cables to the invertor.

TBH, large scale solar is just a greenwash in the UK. Would be better to focus on getting small nuc and tidal working, with combined cycle gas turbines in the interim. All "net zero" is doing is making us poorer and less resiliant, industry going abroad to be made with greater emissions then we import the stuff back here. The value of a large spinning mass on grid stability is significant, so small nucs and gas stabilise the grid in a way that is not possible with more wind/solar unless there is big investment in grid stability.... grid-forming invertors, large spinning masses to emulate the natural inertia of a turbine generator......

..... food is another matter. Farming relies not only on fertilizers but also on temperature/humidity controled storage and transport.

Real story.

In the immediate aftermath of COVID when day-job work was scarce, I did some business development around using drones for smart farming. Invested in serious commercial kit, got all the certifications and insurances in place, found a place I could fly crops to test ideas, had some cutting edge sensors and software/computing available. Spent 18 months getting to proven concept stage. I was working with an IT partner who was looking at combining the multi-spectral data with existing soil test data too. We got to the point where one person could fly 50Ha in 35 minutes and generate a multispectral image with 100% coverage at a resolution of 2cm/pixel, processing it in 10 minutes. Around 200Ha/day with same-day results was a reasonable target for scale-up, with a further development trajectory beyond that.

That spectral imaging would have enabled early spotting of crop stress. The exact coordinates could then have been used to check the problem, and if a pest or disease starting, use a second specialist drone to treat a very small area. So could use a few litres to spot treat (usually the whole lot is treated, tractor load at a time). That second stage needed work on kit, certifications and systemising- but was very achivable with some funding. The ideas was to monitor regularly and spot-treat emerging problems- thus removing the need to blanket-treat crops with excess fertilizer, pesticide or herbicide. Good for environment, reduce costs but keep yields up. What's not to like?

We couldn't get any grants/support for scale up (not for want of trying) from the stage we were at, even though money was being chucked at other ideas that didn't reflect reality. The farm estate who had allowed us to use their fields to develop the system acknowledged the achievement, but wasn't going to fund further development as they didn't really need the system, as they harvest then store in a temperature-controlled barn until the price is right to sell. They can wait out low prices, and bad years cause shortage which increases the price.

In the end, I had to make a call on whether I continued. As a very small business, I couldn't sustain further investment (time, money) on my own, and my other work was picking up again. So I put the drone in the shed, and walked away from the whole thing. (I'll get around sto selling the drone and sensors one of these days). Hard lessons, but that's the nature of trying to earn a living as a small business.

Unfortunately, I think it will take a "serious situation" (grid rolling blackouts, food shortages) before anything changes. Which is why I'm a big fan of improving one's personal domestic resilience to cope with more difficult times ahead.

GC

 

[Falstaff]

Think you've nailed it all there Greycat. You would face some very heavy pressure from the petrochem/fertiliser boys for daring to prove you needed less of their products and insecticides. In fact you might have unwittingly done so already in being unable to obtain further development funding.

One last throw of the dice might be to approach the big green charities for ideas/help finding environmentally aware financiers. They'll have a list of their biggest contributors and supporters. Promoting this as giving those supporters back an opportunity to make some "green" income might appeal.

Dyson likes innovative developers, has funding and owns a huge area of farmland - might be worth a try.

 

[Broch]

@GreyCat - I know this is taking the thread off-topic for a moment and you have said you've put the idea aside but I am curious. Did you try to get equity funding?

I used to be part of a consortium that sourced equity funding for small business. To be honest there was never a shortage of great ideas and proposals. The thing that killed most funding was a lack of visible market demand and the likely cost of reaching any identified market. In many cases the 'owners' were prepared to provide equity for development funding but just wouldn't release the majority of equity (typically over 50%) needed to get the idea to market (usually many times more than development cost).

 

[Ystranc]

I've wondered at times in different ways if its a mild ( or not so minor ) form of mental illness if I'm honest.
I think its very much a spectrum thing - I think what I do is justifiable and hence 'right' whilst may look with less tolerant eyes or make judgments upon others.

Overall - I think a little bit of Paranoia is a good thing - I still check on junctions Left and Right even if no traffic ' should ' be coming from the left at all. I've that much faith in human nature.

It’s difficult to tell where healthy prudence crosses over into socially crippling anxiety that prevents people from living their lives to the full if you’re too close to it but I as I see it preparedness is almost certainly a state of mind, heightened awareness of how everyday situations (like traffic) can go wrong very quickly and taking a moment to mitigate the risk is a core part of the mind set. I am risk averse, a state of mind that I jokingly describe as constructive cowardice.

 

[TeeDee]

It’s difficult to tell where healthy prudence crosses over into socially crippling anxiety that prevents people from living their lives to the full if you’re too close to it but I as I see it preparedness is almost certainly a state of mind, heightened awareness of how everyday situations (like traffic) can go wrong very quickly and taking a moment to mitigate the risk is a core part of the mind set. I am risk averse, a state of mind that I jokingly describe as constructive cowardice.

I guess my take on it , is to not let it predate ones thoughts and let it consume oneself - this is however difficult when one considers the human psyche and madness of mobs- which can inflate ones perspective on things in general. Currently the Media is pushing a ' get ready for conflict ' and prepping has suddenly become more , mainstream? pushed by a narrative by state and media and I can imagine some people (new and old to prepping ) and working themselves up into a sweaty nervous state of keep-up-with-the-joneses.


Once one has a certain pragmatic grip on the probability vs impact matrix of potential events - and maybe lived for a while , waiting for a significant event - and suddenly a decade or two have passed - then that immediate fear ( which I guess is the catalyst for prepping in many cases ) has become subdued prepping can be a bit more of a ' Am I covered with the moderate amount of what I have for "most" plausible eventualities.'?

I think the prepping mindset can evolve or become a bit more refined from the ( without criticism ) the newbie buying a lot of kit they don't need or is actually no use to a more elegant tapering and limitation on kit , whist expanding either skills , abilities or mindset.


I still however don't understand those that place prepping for a/the potential future whilst avoiding taking preventative accountability and stock of their health and well being ( also financial responsibility ) in the here and now.

A far more likely mortal risk would be heart disease vs Red Dawn..

 

[demented dale]

I guess my take on it , is to not let it predate ones thoughts and let it consume oneself - this is however difficult when one considers the human psyche and madness of mobs- which can inflate ones perspective on things in general. Currently the Media is pushing a ' get ready for conflict ' and prepping has suddenly become more , mainstream? pushed by a narrative by state and media and I can imagine some people (new and old to prepping ) and working themselves up into a sweaty nervous state of keep-up-with-the-joneses.


Once one has a certain pragmatic grip on the probability vs impact matrix of potential events - and maybe lived for a while , waiting for a significant event - and suddenly a decade or two have passed - then that immediate fear ( which I guess is the catalyst for prepping in many cases ) has become subdued prepping can be a bit more of a ' Am I covered with the moderate amount of what I have for "most" plausible eventualities.'?

I think the prepping mindset can evolve or become a bit more refined from the ( without criticism ) the newbie buying a lot of kit they don't need or is actually no use to a more elegant tapering and limitation on kit , whist expanding either skills , abilities or mindset.


I still however don't understand those that place prepping for a/the potential future whilst avoiding taking preventative accountability and stock of their health and well being ( also financial responsibility ) in the here and now.

A far more likely mortal risk would be heart disease vs Red Dawn..

I agree. I try to look after myself mentally, psychically and spiritually. I bought ten years worth of lentils then settled down to watch Laurel and Hardy and never gave it another thought till this thread started. xxxxx

 

[GreyCat]

Think you've nailed it all there Greycat. You would face some very heavy pressure from the petrochem/fertiliser boys for daring to prove you needed less of their products and insecticides. In fact you might have unwittingly done so already in being unable to obtain further development funding.

One last throw of the dice might be to approach the big green charities for ideas/help finding environmentally aware financiers. They'll have a list of their biggest contributors and supporters. Promoting this as giving those supporters back an opportunity to make some "green" income might appeal.

Dyson likes innovative developers, has funding and owns a huge area of farmland - might be worth a try.

@GreyCat - I know this is taking the thread off-topic for a moment and you have said you've put the idea aside but I am curious. Did you try to get equity funding?

I used to be part of a consortium that sourced equity funding for small business. To be honest there was never a shortage of great ideas and proposals. The thing that killed most funding was a lack of visible market demand and the likely cost of reaching any identified market. In many cases the 'owners' were prepared to provide equity for development funding but just wouldn't release the majority of equity (typically over 50%) needed to get the idea to market (usually many times more than development cost).

At the time we looked at a number of options, but our proven useful work always lost out to those who were better at selling unicorns....... then my IT mate moved onto other things and I was on my own, a microbusiness and couldn't risk losing the (returning) day job work. The market was theoretical, and the requirements to keep the drone flying were becoming more onerous year on year.

Maybe if I'd been younger, maybe if I'd had nothing else, maybe if I could have broken into the charmed circle of back-scratchers who did a lot of publicity but didn't deliver......

...... I made a call. The call I made was that until the potential customers were incentivised- either by hurting financially or something else- then everyone involved would be happy with the greenwash pretense. Too many vested interests in things remaining the same, and over the years I have learnt that it takes a combination of elements lining up together to prevail against vested interests, and that combination hadn't yet lined up. Maybe it will come in the next decade; maybe not.

I wouldn't have had any issues with sharing equity, that option just wasn't available at the time. I can see the future trajectory too well for my own good at times, and that makes people nervous. They prefer to ignore the trend, and forego the option to solve it proactively and instead wait until they need to react to prevent a calamity. Seen many times over the years in the day job and learnt the hard way to recognise when it's time to walk away.

So to come back on topic...... at about that time my other half and I had just bought our "Project" so I focused my energy into low-level resiliance...... one little step at a time.

And on reflection, what we'd developed was really only a transition technology, as drones in themselves are not really very sustainable.

Proper sustainability needs a generation educated to do more with less, to use "lowest effective" technology and to work with ecosystems not against them. But I don't see that starting properly until we "react" when it becomes catastrophic. Unfortunately, the "net zero" orthodoxy has detracted focus from the things that are less flashy but more necessary/effective. We could possibly meet future energy needs without fossil fuels- but only if we (a) change our whole way of farming, (b) change our means of transport, (c) focus on reliable and predictable energy sources such as tidal and small modular nuc (with development of existing technology so we can turn our ponds of nuclear waste into fuel and get rid of it whilst getting some benefit) and (d) use less overall by consuming less.

All that requires honest conversation, vision, moving away from energy-hungry AI, being more thoughtful about how/why we import more people and stuff (rather than keep making it locally); and more than anything else, educating a generation in practical skills not pointless theory.

<I'll get off me soapbox now>

GC

 

[bearbait]

I do follow the basic rule of “Two is one, one is none” when it comes to important things.

Good luck explaining that one to the missus...

 

[British Red]

I guess my take on it , is to not let it predate ones thoughts and let it consume oneself - this is however difficult when one considers the human psyche and madness of mobs- which can inflate ones perspective on things in general.

I wonder how many on this forum are living unpleasant lives through fear? Doing jobs they dislike, living in built up areas that are polluted & unsafe, dreaming of a life in the country doing something meaningful.

But of course fear of failure, not paying the mortgage, kids schools etc. keep people pinned to urban areas in quiet misery

Fear should never motivate, but I think for many these days in "conventional urban employment" it does. It did me.

 

[TeeDee]

I wonder how many on this forum are living unpleasant lives through fear? Doing jobs they dislike, living in built up areas that are polluted & unsafe, dreaming of a life in the country doing something meaningful.

But of course fear of failure, not paying the mortgage, kids schools etc. keep people pinned to urban areas in quiet misery

Fear should never motivate, but I think for many these days in "conventional urban employment" it does. It did me.

I'm not sure what exactly has awakened this thread but I will try my best to explain my comments.

Yes -I'm sure many , many , many of us are in jobs , 'careers ' that we don't enjoy but are invested in - for various reasons we have probably taken stock of where we are , where we could/would like to be and somehow justified the compromise of acceptance that maybe many of us do.

Thats one thing I understand and have sympathy for - I can also relate on many levels even although I can also remind myself life IS short and its not a destination. But a journey.

Easy to say - Harder to do. For me at least ( so no judgement on anyone else -if you've managed to 'let go' and reinvent yourself I commend you)




I think my initial comments ref 'predating ' thoughts relate to more what I experienced myself when initially looking at Prepping ( due to 'reasons ' ) as an newbie - I remember the feeling that I felt an intrinsic need to understand and scale what seemed to be an unscalable wall of a subject matter that felt like it was super critical and important ( at the time ) -

I don't think this was necessarily helped by lurking certain forums as they acted as a sort of echo chamber to a degree - more people talking about the same subject manner allowing ones mind to be veered to fixating upon it more - a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

So it can be definitely be daunting to someone new to the subject matter.
Which Is why i do wonder how the recent war drum beating and rallying to arms of various governments have affected general populations whom have it presented to them as a more than likely probably event.

I think the prepping community ( and this is just my personal opinion ) can create a self fueled cycle of thought patterns - ( I'm still guilty of this ) - Read related fiction - Watch related films and Youtube - Join Forums to discuss further - over time this can lead to more of everyday thoughts fixating upon what is a subject matter that I think that although can be self empowering and character/skill building also may dwell too much in the negative mind space.



< Bit of a ramble - Can't say I'm assured I did my thoughts justice >

 

[British Red]

I think the prepping community ( and this is just my personal opinion ) can create a self fueled cycle of thought patterns

My reply was I think to say that society as a whole is doing that. We have come to a place where people think spending their lives being miserable to buy "stuff" is the purpose of existence. Where (all) governments pile on national debt because we now all expect "free" services (even though we can't afford them). Where "growth" is needed to pay for the debts we keep racking up.

I wonder if preppers have seen through that?

 

[TeeDee]

My reply was I think to say that society as a whole is doing that. We have come to a place where people think spending their lives being miserable to buy "stuff" is the purpose of existence. Where (all) governments pile on national debt because we now all expect "free" services (even though we can't afford them). Where "growth" is needed to pay for the debts we keep racking up.

I wonder if preppers have seen through that?

I have spoken about this before but I think / hope there is a sort of nexus point where living with a home that generates its own power , is low energy via insulation , has the capability to grow a part of ones own food , and be relatively debt free can be a more common reality

I just think its more likely if one expands their horizon and mind on where 'home' can be.


I'm in agreement that we have become a 'stuff' fixated culture.

"Growth" is an interesting variable in regards to debt depending upon how one defines " Growth "

 

[British Red]

.

"Growth" is an interesting variable in regards to debt depending upon how one defines " Growth "

Indeed, Growth in GDP often equates to individuals being worse off. It's a stupid economic measure

 

[ONE]

Indeed, Growth in GDP often equates to individuals being worse off. It's a stupid economic measure

Ireland is a very good example.

 

[Chris]

Companies chasing infinite growth each quarter can only end in tears.

Also ‘growth’ isn’t good enough. If you get a 6% increase in profit one quarter, but then a 5% increase in profit the next quarter it is seen as some financial crisis because the percentage of growth dropped. Record profits result in redundancies just because the increase was slightly less aggressive for a few months.

Doesn’t take a mathematician to spot the issue there.

How about we get used to being happy with ‘enough’? ‘Enough’ is far more than millions and millions of people are graced with throughout history. To them, enough was a dream.

 

[TeeDee]

Gordon Gekko

.

How about we get used to being happy with ‘enough’? ‘Enough’ is far more than millions and millions of people are graced with throughout history. To them, enough was a dream.

That;s the difficult bit however isn't it?

Because we can blame external forces , blame peer pressure , blame our society for how it 'makes' us make certain decisions , the offers of black friday sales and all the various mod-con upgrades ( I-Phone latest model , Electric Car, Biometric ring , etc etc )

But all those decision of consumer interaction ( and thus the lowest level of capitalism ) rest with just , as Michael-Hee-Hee-Jackson would say - the Man ( or woman.. ) in the Mirror...

I think we are somehow biologically hardwired to 'want' unfortunately and that is only encouraged more by market forces.
We can be wonderfully hypocritical as a species ( Group ) and as a people ( Individuals ) - Like a Fat kid shoving in a gobful of cream covered cake whilst mumbling " I really must go on a diet tomorrow "..

What is enough? Enough for one isn't going to be enough for another , I think that's something we can all agree upon - that we will all disagree what 'enough' is for each of us.

Example of available choices in a modern world - what has changed so much that people here are choosing to alter the way that they commute - it was and I would imagine is a potential option for commuting that doesn't require a Car.

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/70425

Published in 2019 so no doubt the Blue line has gone near vertical now.



Hard for me to sit here and tell the Chinese they don't really need cars - that the Bicycle is enough.

Using that as an foreign example of why the only control of 'Enough' rests solely with the individual - whats changed for them that Cars are becoming more commonplace? - Availability and Desire.


In our own country my concerns about what ' Enough ' maybe could be taken down to the very basics of what a western world ( Possibly still world power? ) population should have access to
Roof over their head - Preferably their own that they Own.
Clean Water
Food at sensible prices
Ability to express themselves via free speech or protest regardless of their political views
Policed by a common rule of law applied equally to all.

Thats 5 points of potentially what could be considered Enough as a basic framework - but its hard to work from a very basic framework whilst looking over the fence of your neighbouring countries fence and unless the terms are the same - not coveting what they have.


A while back i did a quick study into Home ownership around the world - I do worry about where Housing ownership is going - ( Large corporations Blackrock/LLoyds moving into the UK Housing market to basically purchase and block lease UK housing stock to tenants as part of their portfolio ) the results did surprise me somewhat :-

https://ceoworld.biz/2025/05/13/ranked-countries-with-the-most-and-least-home-ownership-rate-2025/

The UK is at Position of #182

I know that there will be arguments that Homeownership in the UK is something that historically is rare and thus should not be an expected 'right' but I can't help but feel that anyone younger starting out in life here may feel a somewhat disfranchised nihilistic mantle - I would be looking to restart elsewhere.

Is Home ownership a 'Need' and thus related directly to 'Enough' ? I think so.




Sorry - early morning Ramble.

I guess my main comment is -How do we police ourselves ( If one has the money or access to Credit money ) that one really doesn't 'NEED' the next trinket or item that is either super sharp, super lightweight , exotic scandinavian hiking/camping provenance , or endorsed by our personal bushcraft hero )

It can only start and end with ourselves.

This thread gets a lot of updates. Just saying.

Post in thread 'What did you buy today?'

Jul 24, 2024

Do you have a bowser delivering fuel?
What is the total fuel capacity of your collection? It’s impressive when it’s on fire!

What did you buy today? Half a tonne of kerosene?

• Pattree

 

[Tengu]

TeeDee, I would add what Joseph Banks said when he came back from the South Seas.

He was in many ways sad to return to wet, cold and complicated Britain, but then he realised the Polynesians had no Social Mobility.

 

[TeeDee]

One day a fisherman was lying on a beautiful beach, with his fishing pole propped up in the sand and his solitary line cast out into the sparkling blue surf. He was enjoying the warmth of the afternoon sun and the prospect of catching a fish.

About that time, a businessman came walking down the beach, trying to relieve some of the stress of his workday. He noticed the fisherman sitting on the beach and decided to find out why this fisherman was fishing instead of working harder to make a living for himself and his family. “You aren’t going to catch many fish that way,” said the businessman to the fisherman.

“You should be working rather than lying on the beach!”

The fisherman looked up at the businessman, smiled and replied, “And what will my reward be?”

“Well, you can get bigger nets and catch more fish!” was the businessman’s answer. “And then what will my reward be?” asked the fisherman, still smiling. The businessman replied, “You will make money and you’ll be able to buy a boat, which will then result in larger catches of fish!”

“And then what will my reward be?” asked the fisherman again.

The businessman was beginning to get a little irritated with the fisherman’s questions. “You can buy a bigger boat, and hire some people to work for you!” he said.

“And then what will my reward be?” repeated the fisherman.

The businessman was getting angry. “Don’t you understand? You can build up a fleet of fishing boats, sail all over the world, and let all your employees catch fish for you!”

Once again the fisherman asked, “And then what will my reward be?”

The businessman was red with rage and shouted at the fisherman, “Don’t you understand that you can become so rich that you will never have to work for your living again! You can spend all the rest of your days sitting on this beach, looking at the sunset. You won’t have a care in the world!”

The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, “And what do you think I’m doing right now?”

 

[Tengu]

And, so which one of those individuals is a Readers Digest reader?

 

[slowworm]

I wonder how many on this forum are living unpleasant lives through fear? Doing jobs they dislike, living in built up areas that are polluted & unsafe, dreaming of a life in the country doing something meaningful.

We left that behind well over a decade ago. For us it was a fairly logical decision as it was fairly obvious we could spend most of our earnings simply to enable us to carry on working. We can now live comfortably on quite a small income. The main problem we are going to face is having enough money to pay council tax for services we will not be provided and to pay for even basic health care.