Wild camping on National Trust land in the Lake District

[Dan00001]

Do the National Trust permit wild camping on their land?

On the NT website, they have a section on wild camping, listing some criteria that you should abide by such as keeping out of sight, staying only one night, pitching above the highest fell wall, leaving no trace etc.

Then in their 'Countryside-Code' section of their website, they state, and I quote:

1. Please camp considerately
   Overnight stays are not allowed. Please use designated campsites if you’d like to stay the night.

Now, I always presumed that the National Trust did not permit wild camping on any of their land in England and Wales and that their wild camping section was simply a guideline to proper and respectful wild camping whilst having minimal impact on the environment, because they know that people are going to wild camp regardless so it's better to give some proper advice on how to wild camp etc. I was under the impression that the only place you were legally permitted to wild camp was on certain areas of Dartmoor.

I'm interested in other peoples opinions/perception on this topic.

Thank you.

 

[Pattree]

I find the “stay out of sight” instruction on the NT web site intriguing. I hasn’t noticed that before. I’ll go and look.

If I wanted to camp on NT open land I just did it. I’ve never been questioned but then I applied the “practice that may not speak its name”. I set up after sunset and was gone by dawn.

Why don’t you try it with a print out from the web site in your back pocket?

Edited to add:
Yep, it’s limited to the Lake District National Park but go for it!!!!

 

[Dan00001]

I find the “stay out of sight” instruction on the NT web site intriguing. I hasn’t noticed that before. I’ll go and look.

If I wanted to camp on NT open land I just did it. I’ve never been questioned but then I applied the “practice that may not speak its name”. I set up after sunset and was gone by dawn.

Why don’t you try it with a print out from the web site in your back pocket?

I have no issue with wild camping i.e trespassing, I do it often, and I've never been questioned, or asked to move.

The purpose of this post is not to see who wild camps on NT land, or asking if I should camp on NT land, I'm specifically interested in peoples opinions on whether or not they think the National Trust permit wild camping on their land in the lake District, following their wild camping 'code'.

 

[Chris]

The convention is that wild camping is tolerated above the highest fell wall in the Lake District, rather than actually allowed. So it's technically not allowed, but people who camp discretely at altitude and leave no trace, tend to have no issues and people don't get upset about it.

The National Trust website wording is being pragmatic. They know people are going to do it despite it not being allowed, so they're encouraging people to do so responsibly given this fact.

 

[Dan00001]

The convention is that wild camping is tolerated above the highest fell wall in the Lake District, rather than actually allowed. So it's technically not allowed, but people who camp discretely at altitude and leave no trace, tend to have no issues and people don't get upset about it.

The National Trust website wording is being pragmatic. They know people are going to do it despite it not being allowed, so they're encouraging people to do so responsibly given this fact.

This is exactly my thoughts. Tolerated, but not explicitly permitted.

 

[Dan00001]

I got into this discussion with somebody who was adamant that wild camping is permitted on National Trust land. I argued my own opinion that the NT do not permit wild camping on their land, as stated elsewhere on their website and the page on their website regarding wild camping was a guide only, not permission.

Well curiosity got the better of me and I decided to email the NT on Friday asking if they permit wild camping on any of the land that they own. They replied on Friday without answering my question and simply pointed me in the direction of their website. So I replied stating that I was fully aware of their page on wild camping but that I couldn't be sure if it was giving permission or if it was simply a guideline for people who are going to camp regardless.

This was the email I had back off them today:
Dear Daniel,

"Thank you for your response.

The link below means that you can wild camp at the Lake district and gives you guidance on how to camp there.

I hope this helps."

So they still haven't said the words 'we permit you to wild camp' but are these words as good as saying it, or is it just like saying you can physically do it but we're not saying whether we give you permission or not.?

 

[Chris]

I got into this discussion with somebody who was adamant that wild camping is permitted on National Trust land. I argued my own opinion that the NT do not permit wild camping on their land, as stated elsewhere on their website and the page on their website regarding wild camping was a guide only, not permission.

Well curiosity got the better of me and I decided to email the NT on Friday asking if they permit wild camping on any of the land that they own. They replied on Friday without answering my question and simply pointed me in the direction of their website. So I replied stating that I was fully aware of their page on wild camping but that I couldn't be sure if it was giving permission or if it was simply a guideline for people who are going to camp regardless.

This was the email I had back off them today:
Dear Daniel,

"Thank you for your response.

The link below means that you can wild camp at the Lake district and gives you guidance on how to camp there.

I hope this helps."

So they still haven't said the words 'we permit you to wild camp' but are these words as good as saying it, or is it just like saying you can physically do it but we're not saying whether we give you permission or not.?

I suspect deliberate ambiguity for legal reasons. They’ll want to retain their right to kick people off/prosecute people who are taking the P.

 

[Pattree]

Wild camping in the Lake District

Find out if wild camping in the Lake District if right for you and how to do it legally, safely and responsibly.

www.nationaltrust.org.uk

In fact - not ambiguous at all.

 

[Dan00001]

Wild camping in the Lake District

Find out if wild camping in the Lake District if right for you and how to do it legally, safely and responsibly.

www.nationaltrust.org.uk

In fact - not ambiguous at all.

But nowhere does it explicitly state that the NT permit wild camping, and if you click on ther 'countryside-code' section of their website, it says on there that 'overnight stays are not allowed'.

 

[Pattree]

But nowhere does it explicitly state that the NT permit wild camping, and if you click on ther 'countryside-code' section of their website, it says on there that 'overnight stays are not allowed'.

That Countryside Code is for the whole of the National Trust.

As I said before, if you want to overnight on NT open ground in the Lake District, just do it.

Again, I’d have a print out of the section with me; not much WiFi up there but you won’t be challenged anyway.

The Lake District is, according to the link above, an exception to that code. That part of the website clearly has two definitions of wild camping: you can “wild camp” at one of their camp sites or you can go off on your own - just don’t leave anything on site or pee in the drink!

 

[Pupers]

I have no issue with wild camping i.e trespassing, I do it often, and I've never been questioned, or asked to move.

So if you came across a piece of ground that had very discreet signs saying “Private Property Please Keep Out” Would you ignore them, trespass and camp?

 

[Chris]

Might be worth reading what Tony says about promoting trespass (regardless of our personal opinions on the matter) on the BCUK forums, as otherwise discussion could well veer off to the point the thread gets shut down:

Post in thread 'Places for wild camping through winter months'

Nov 15, 2022

Some clarity of my expectations on these forums.

This isn't a comment about the legalities of trespass, civil, or criminal law, they have been expressed quite adequately in this thread and many others on the forums.

Many years ago I decided that we would not promote trespass, no matter how it was perceived by us (Admin and Mods) and the membership.

The rules on Bushcraft UK are that trespass should not be promoted as an activity. That allows us the freedom to talk about wild camping from the perspective of camping lightly in wild places without the specifics of where because we...

• Tony

• 

 

[Pattree]

My response above is a bit glib but reflects the way I thought (used to think) of such notices.

My reminiscences are just that, Not recommendations.
In some cases it was obvious that the land is sensitive and to be avoided, others, like estate boundaries, less so.

The best place was right up against the estate wall if it’s not on a path. I didn’t cook, I set up in the dusk and departed before dawn. Just sleep and moved on. Breakfast on the verge down the road.

Mod.
Delete this post by all means if I have offended.

 

[Pupers]

Please, I don’t get offended, so not an issue at all.

The reason I asked that question is that I managed to acquire a small piece of land, less than an acre, grown in with bramble with an old, dried out pond. Long story short, after a lot of hard work, it is now our little piece of heaven with a lovely large pond brimming with wildlife. My family and I use it to practice our skills and camp out, the GKs love it. It is very private and not easily found, I have put the signs, deliberately using the word “please” inside the area so they are only seen if someone enters over the gate.

I simply look at it this way, if someone entered my garden without invite, especially if my GKs were there, it would not be pretty, not pretty at all. I therefore consider our tiny piece of ground no different.

Thank you.

 

[Dan00001]

So if you came across a piece of ground that had very discreet signs saying “Private Property Please Keep Out” Would you ignore them, trespass and camp?

Yes, it's trespass, a civil offence, not a criminal offence. Signs make no difference.

 

[Dan00001]

just to add- there's many factors involved in choosing a site to pitch, a sign would be somewhere on the list although low down the list.

I'm very much a camp higher up person anyway so typically it's mountains, hills etc. which is usually NT land. I do think we should have some sort of system closer to what Scotland have. And I own a couple of acres of land.

 

[nigelp]

Since forever and long before wild camping was a ‘thing’ it was accepted that wild camping on the hills responsibly was fine. Leave not trace, respect the activities taking place and set up and take down dusk until dawn. I’ve encountered many farmers and hill farmers and never had any problems. Many will advise and suggest on good routes with nice views or suggest better spots depending on the weather.
In lowland areas it’s trickier but same principles and the worst that can happen is someone asks you to leave.

Some places are obviously not good to camp on being close to habitation or used for bird slaughter and there will be signage usually to give an indication of the landowners temperament.

I think a difference is that I’m going at it as a hiker, cyclists and not a ‘bush crafter’ and do not carry any knifes or intend to light a fire etc.

The NT website seems pretty clear in its ambiguity - you can wild camping on their land of you treat it with respect.

 

[Dan00001]

My own opinion is that they are definitely being ambiguous and I don't think that they actually permit wild camping.

The Lake District National Park website, for comparison, is very clearly put. They have the same guidance on wild camping as on the NT website, and also use terms like 'normally tolerated' but they also explicitly state that they do not permit wild camping on their land.

https://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/where-to-stay/wild-camping

 

[Pattree]

I’m not sure what you are worried about @Dan00001 .

If you want to wild camp on open land in the NT owned Lake District National Park, you are permitted to do it (in writing!)

I have absolutely no doubt that you will respect the land.

Relax and have fun.
Tell us about it when you get back.

 

[Dan00001]

I’m not sure what you are worried about @Dan00001 .

If you want to wild camp on open land in the NT owned Lake District National Park, you are permitted to do it (in writing!)

I have absolutely no doubt that you will respect the land.

Relax and have fun.
Tell us about it when you get back.

Thank you Pattree, I'm not worried about it, I'm fully read up on the legislation regarding trespass, this is purely a discussion on peoples perception of the NT's wording regarding wild camping and whether or not others think that the NT explicitly permit wild camping, which I don't think they do.