I confess I came onto this thread thinking, "Oh no 
"...because A) BcUK does not in any way encourage trespass, and B) wild camping is not necessarily tresspass though, and C) threads usually turn into a row
However,
I am delighted to read calm, common sense. An open acknowledgment of the situation, from all sides. A discussion, and no flyting
Thank you to everyone involved; your restraint and courtesy are much appreciated.
Years ago, when the rights of access came into legal state in Scotland, I was told by someone, who'd helped to write the publications given out, that some deliberate blurring was included (he said specifically for firelighting), for just the reason that @Chris said in post No. 7....legal ambiguity if someone really does not behave in the spirit of the access. I suspect that the NT did the same.
They'd much rather have as little fuss and bother as possible, and most folks who do camp outwith camp'sites' themselves want to do so with as little fuss and bother as possible.....but there's always a numpty the cretinous eejit, the deliberate vandalism, like the sycamore tree at the gap.
I have worked in the Lake District, (fieldwalking, recording, digging) wild camping is a contentious issue there, even if the NT is pretty laissez faire about it on their land, the locals aren't.
It's their farm, it's their field (and their drystone walls are not, repeat not, safe to climb over, they're not built to be climbed over and rebuilding them is blooming expensive) their bit of land, their home.
I think that's the real issue; the NT or the locals who have to deal with everything from littering to fires to dogs worrying sheep, broken walls and the underlying concern that if someone gets hurt, then somehow they're going to be made responsible, even for self served stupidity.
There are seasons when the Lake District is so inundated with tourists that everyday tasks, like going shopping or getting the kids to and from school can become nightmares of snarled roads, etc.,
I have worked there when we got on site before seven because we couldn't get there otherwise because of tourist traffic, and I have worked there when it was -11˚C and blowing a gale, and we tripped over a miserable camper trying to coorie down against one of those fall over type walls
the local farmer whose farm we were recording (500m, one of a line of Viking settlements on what we reckoned was then just marginal land) was not impressed, he didn't even leave the sheep up there in that weather.
NT want people to enjoy the land, we all do, but locals are just trying to make a living.
There's always going to be some kind of debate about rights of access or not there. I think the NT are just trying to leave enough in the guidelines to make folks aware but also to cover if someone does do something totally agin the ethos of responsible access.
Tony wrote the following; I thought when he posted it all those years ago, that it was very sound. I still think that
Many years ago I decided that we would not promote trespass, no matter how it was perceived by us (Admin and Mods) and the membership.
The rules on Bushcraft UK are that trespass should not be promoted as an activity. That allows us the freedom to talk about wild camping from the perspective of camping lightly in wild places without the specifics of where because we assume that everyone is polite and considerate and treats land owners with respect and there's always permission or it's in areas where it's pre-established as in some areas of the UK and many areas abroad.
So, while I'm ok with some discussion on wild camping, perspectives of campers and land owners etc, I do not want any statements of encouragement to trespass or derogatory comments about land owners etc.
I have in the past been contacted by organisations, land owners and once the police because of 'Bushcrafters' trespassing and not behaving well while they trespass.
The site can be blacklisted by companies and organisations if it's deemed to be a site that promotes law-breaking etc. I know this because it's happened and we had to work hard to get it de-listed.
"...because A) BcUK does not in any way encourage trespass, and B) wild camping is not necessarily tresspass though, and C) threads usually turn into a row However,
I am delighted to read calm, common sense. An open acknowledgment of the situation, from all sides. A discussion, and no flyting
Thank you to everyone involved; your restraint and courtesy are much appreciated.
Years ago, when the rights of access came into legal state in Scotland, I was told by someone, who'd helped to write the publications given out, that some deliberate blurring was included (he said specifically for firelighting), for just the reason that @Chris said in post No. 7....legal ambiguity if someone really does not behave in the spirit of the access. I suspect that the NT did the same.
They'd much rather have as little fuss and bother as possible, and most folks who do camp outwith camp'sites' themselves want to do so with as little fuss and bother as possible.....but there's always a numpty
the cretinous eejit, the deliberate vandalism, like the sycamore tree at the gap.I have worked in the Lake District, (fieldwalking, recording, digging) wild camping is a contentious issue there, even if the NT is pretty laissez faire about it on their land, the locals aren't.
It's their farm, it's their field (and their drystone walls are not, repeat not, safe to climb over, they're not built to be climbed over and rebuilding them is blooming expensive) their bit of land, their home.
I think that's the real issue; the NT or the locals who have to deal with everything from littering to fires to dogs worrying sheep, broken walls and the underlying concern that if someone gets hurt, then somehow they're going to be made responsible, even for self served stupidity.
There are seasons when the Lake District is so inundated with tourists that everyday tasks, like going shopping or getting the kids to and from school can become nightmares of snarled roads, etc.,
I have worked there when we got on site before seven because we couldn't get there otherwise because of tourist traffic, and I have worked there when it was -11˚C and blowing a gale, and we tripped over a miserable camper trying to coorie down against one of those fall over type walls
the local farmer whose farm we were recording (500m, one of a line of Viking settlements on what we reckoned was then just marginal land) was not impressed, he didn't even leave the sheep up there in that weather.NT want people to enjoy the land, we all do, but locals are just trying to make a living.
There's always going to be some kind of debate about rights of access or not there. I think the NT are just trying to leave enough in the guidelines to make folks aware but also to cover if someone does do something totally agin the ethos of responsible access.
Tony wrote the following; I thought when he posted it all those years ago, that it was very sound. I still think that
Many years ago I decided that we would not promote trespass, no matter how it was perceived by us (Admin and Mods) and the membership.
The rules on Bushcraft UK are that trespass should not be promoted as an activity. That allows us the freedom to talk about wild camping from the perspective of camping lightly in wild places without the specifics of where because we assume that everyone is polite and considerate and treats land owners with respect and there's always permission or it's in areas where it's pre-established as in some areas of the UK and many areas abroad.
So, while I'm ok with some discussion on wild camping, perspectives of campers and land owners etc, I do not want any statements of encouragement to trespass or derogatory comments about land owners etc.
I have in the past been contacted by organisations, land owners and once the police because of 'Bushcrafters' trespassing and not behaving well while they trespass.
The site can be blacklisted by companies and organisations if it's deemed to be a site that promotes law-breaking etc. I know this because it's happened and we had to work hard to get it de-listed.
