But, didn't you say earlier that you had profited from dowsing yourself?
Should we not be equally suspicious of small business' that do make a profit from these claims? Surely there is vested interest there, and an equal potential for corruption.
Dowsing
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Should we not be equally suspicious of small business' that do make a profit from these claims? Surely there is vested interest there, and an equal potential for corruption.
Lawrence Maine, one time proprietor of the magazine about Leys would always correct anyone using the term Leyline. He held that it was tortological and that the term Ley meant line.
I shall leave that part of the discussion to others as my knowledge is limited and not personal.
I shall leave that part of the discussion to others as my knowledge is limited and not personal.
As a wordy bloke from the West Midlands once put it; "There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I wonder if the scientific tests for the credibility of dowsing are simply testing the wrong way? Don't think I can explain this very well, but maybe it's as though someone was trying to prove that music has an emotional effect on people by testing the soundwaves, pitch, tone, and that sort of thing, whereas actually you should be monitoring the people listening to it. I don't know, my brain's on a go slow at the mo', but I throw it out there fwiw.
I wonder if the scientific tests for the credibility of dowsing are simply testing the wrong way? Don't think I can explain this very well, but maybe it's as though someone was trying to prove that music has an emotional effect on people by testing the soundwaves, pitch, tone, and that sort of thing, whereas actually you should be monitoring the people listening to it. I don't know, my brain's on a go slow at the mo', but I throw it out there fwiw.
If something works..it works. You don't need proof it works.
I think what some people are saying is ..how does it work. ? I need a scientific explanation before I believe it.
Everything is energy. Everything vibrates at a certain frequency, even stones, hence quartz watches.(and were they not used in very early radios?) But many who have a quartz watch, don't believe crystals can heal.
Think how you can take an instant liking or dislike to someone. We say, it's their vibe. A shortening of the word vibration.
Do I need to have a scientific knowledge of how fire works? No, I know it does, I know the effects it can have. I know how to make it happen. That's all I need to know about it.
Same with dowsing.
Trust the process, enjoy the results. Don't worry about the rest. It's nice to have mysteries don't you think?
I think what some people are saying is ..how does it work. ? I need a scientific explanation before I believe it.
Everything is energy. Everything vibrates at a certain frequency, even stones, hence quartz watches.(and were they not used in very early radios?) But many who have a quartz watch, don't believe crystals can heal.
Think how you can take an instant liking or dislike to someone. We say, it's their vibe. A shortening of the word vibration.
Do I need to have a scientific knowledge of how fire works? No, I know it does, I know the effects it can have. I know how to make it happen. That's all I need to know about it.
Same with dowsing.
Trust the process, enjoy the results. Don't worry about the rest. It's nice to have mysteries don't you think?
For me the exploration of the How is fun and only adds to my enjoyment of dowsing. The fact that I can’t find a scientific explanation doesn’t mean that there won’t be one some day.
I’m the meantime I shall enjoy making use of and playing with dowsing rods.
Richard Feynman put it well.
I believe this man to be one of the greatest minds if the twentieth century. He was deeply disturbed towards the end of his life, he had helped to develop the atom bomb at Los Alamos.
I’m the meantime I shall enjoy making use of and playing with dowsing rods.
Richard Feynman put it well.
I believe this man to be one of the greatest minds if the twentieth century. He was deeply disturbed towards the end of his life, he had helped to develop the atom bomb at Los Alamos.
I thought about saying something about music myself, but it became too complicated to say anything meaningful in a short post, so I chose simpler ideas.
But you are right, music is vibration, and it can make you feel emotion, affect your mood and even actions. Scientific explanation? Who cares!
Accepting things for their intrinsic value, rather than trying to scientifically explain every little nuance is OK. Life is too dam short to worry about it.! Just enjoy dowsing, music, etc, for what it is.
One of the best scientific minds to have lived. A complicated person (hey, who knew that we’re imperfect beings??) with an astonishing level of curiosity and ability to communicate complex ideas in an accessible manner.
True……
…..but there is for me, a satisfaction in understanding how sustained combustion works. I enjoy thinking about it.
An understanding of heat transfer explains why a pyre structure is hotter than a wig-wam.
Thinking is fun, it’s my favourite activity.
I think it’s great that science has not yet explained dowsing. There is so very little “low fruit” left to be discovered. Discovery these days requires vast resources, obscure mathematics and highly complex computations.
Perhaps dowsing does too but it may also be one of the last discoveries to be made by an arm chair philosopher.
What a fascinating discussion. I have seen a dowser at work, the water board used one to find a 16 inch main that was supposed to be in the middle of a road according to gis maps and service drawings, but after a couple of CAT scans and 3 trial pits to find it they gave up and brought in the dowser, within 5 minutes he had identified the possible route of the main, about 20 feet from presumed location. The excavator was duly employed to dig down on the line and after 2 buckets of excavation found the main exactly where the dowser had indicated. Don't know how it works but it did on that occasion. I also worked with an archeologist who used a dowser to identify potential dig sites and he had a fairly good success rate of locating buried features and artifacts. Maybe some folk are just attuned to their surroundings better that others, but I think there must be something in it.
Cheers
Jfw
Cheers
Jfw
How many of us have watched a good magician (Pen and teller for instance) and wondered how it was done?
Yes, I'm intrigued and strive to see , but I cant, so I don't worry about it. I just revel in the mystery. Take the mystery away, and all the magic disappears.
Its good to have wonderment, and an innocent enjoyment of things that mystify us. So many of us get caught up in having to have every little thing explained or proved, or we don't believe, that we loose the childlike wonderment that we used to have, and become too serious.
Like scoffing at people who claim to get wisdom from trees and plants.
Do fairies exist? All kids love them and it's sad that we loose this as we grow up. I do believe in little folk. (Not your picture book fairies ...as such) but I had an experience that I cannot explain and if it wasn't for my dogs behavior, I might have dismissed it, and just thought I'd imagined things.
I cannot explain, I don't want or need to. It was a magical, amazing, joyful, and precious moment.
I've never knowingly had another experience like it, though often the corner of my eye has been caught, although I see nothing, I often wonder what caught my attention.
I'm content to leave it at that.
Yes, I'm intrigued and strive to see , but I cant, so I don't worry about it. I just revel in the mystery. Take the mystery away, and all the magic disappears.
Its good to have wonderment, and an innocent enjoyment of things that mystify us. So many of us get caught up in having to have every little thing explained or proved, or we don't believe, that we loose the childlike wonderment that we used to have, and become too serious.
Like scoffing at people who claim to get wisdom from trees and plants.
Do fairies exist? All kids love them and it's sad that we loose this as we grow up. I do believe in little folk. (Not your picture book fairies ...as such) but I had an experience that I cannot explain and if it wasn't for my dogs behavior, I might have dismissed it, and just thought I'd imagined things.
I cannot explain, I don't want or need to. It was a magical, amazing, joyful, and precious moment.
I've never knowingly had another experience like it, though often the corner of my eye has been caught, although I see nothing, I often wonder what caught my attention.
I'm content to leave it at that.
Now for me, knowing how a stage magicians trick works does not in the least detract from the performance. I already knew that the tiger had not dematerialised. I already knew that Paul Daniels was not about to decapitate himself.
Penn and Teller showed me how it was done but the performance was no less entertaining.
Edited to add:
Human beings seem to be somewhat diverse. Now THERE’S a surprise!
Penn and Teller showed me how it was done but the performance was no less entertaining.
Edited to add:
Human beings seem to be somewhat diverse. Now THERE’S a surprise!
Now there is that word...
Entertaining, ...rather than magical or mystifying.
It's a whole different thing.
……. but surely, doesn’t everyone see a stage magician as entertaining while knowing that they are not magical (in any extra-natural sense)
Dowsing is different because it seems that the dowser doesn’t know how they do it.
Has anyone attempted dowsing while this thread has been running? Is anyone prepared to do it, preferably someone who has never done it before?
The only advice I shall give is to hold your arms in the same semi-relaxed way that you’d carry a tray of full glasses
Dowsing is different because it seems that the dowser doesn’t know how they do it.
Has anyone attempted dowsing while this thread has been running? Is anyone prepared to do it, preferably someone who has never done it before?
The only advice I shall give is to hold your arms in the same semi-relaxed way that you’d carry a tray of full glasses
True, but children who have no explanation regard it as magical. The explanation takes away the mystery, and then it just becomes entertainment.
I hear what you are saying, but don't we all need a little bit of magic and mystery in our lives?
I often try to explain to myself logicaly what I saw that day in the woods, but I can't, and even if I could, I don't think I want to. It's a wonderful mystery.
Near me is a children's playground. I could never go near it at night, and always felt uncomfortable when I took my son to play there. Couldn't wait to leave. Nobody else seemed to have a problem, so it remained a mystery as to why I didn't like the place.
Found out a few years ago, it was suspected plague victims were buried there. Though, so far, no proof has been found.
I don't know if that is true. Maybe one day I'll try to dowse it and find out. It's perfectly possible as no plague victims are buried in the churchyard, and being a valley, and across the river away from the main habitation, and the only flat area, its perfectly possible. Records show about 50% of the local population died, so about 30- 40 bodies are yet to be found.
I am a bit sensitive to atmosphere. I visited a ruined church near the ruined Abbey in the wye valley. I got into a dreadful panic, wanting out, and I just couldn't get out. I only had to step over a low wall, but I was stuck near the door, which I could see as clear as day.
My partner got spooked and took me back down to the Abbey where he got me a cuppa. I was still shaking as I went into the gift shop, and told the assistant of my experience. It was so vivid. She looked at me strangely and told me the place had burnt down many years ago, killing some children who were found by the door... which wasn't there anymore.
Spooky!
That’s disappointing @TeeDee .
Of course if anyone is finding Feng-Shui useful that’s great and worth a different thread.
Someone who has never dowsed before attempting it now is:
Pertinent to the OP
Demonstrating (or not demonstrating) an immediate effect which would be apparent and could be reported here in a very short time scale.
Edited to add:
There is absolutely nothing to be frightened of.
(I’ve seen dowsers drop the rods as they swung for the first time)
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I think this is perhaps a bit of a sticking point for me. If we completely put aside the question of how it works, I'm still left wondering why it can't stand up to a controlled test? Surely, if it works, it works, regardless of how, and would be easily established by a simple controlled test. If you see what I mean.
I know the feeling.
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