Stop Heavy Bleeding. Advice Please!

[Spaniel man]

I think there is a tendency for some to 'kit up' as if they were going into the wilds of Alaska for a month, when really it's more likely to be a weekend in UK woodland. A lot of 'bushcrafting' is slightly fantastic for a lot of people. I'm sure I'll get burned at the stake for that, but really, look at some of the kit some people carry. Do you really need it? Are you proficient in it's use? Wouldn't you like a lighter pack?

 

[david1]

"What's next, carry a defibrillator rather than learn CPR?"

a defib helps along side CPR it does something different.

 

[Toddy]

Frankly, I appalled at all the advice to add something to an open wound. Pads and packing are one thing, but we're not in a battlefield with shrapnel and projectile weapons and underfire with no safe exit strategy.

Have a look at the Do Not Do This To Yourself thread for the kind of injuries that bushcrafters actually do to themselves, and show me one that would have been better to have coffee granules poured into it

M

 

[xylaria]

Just to be clear please dont treat cuts with plants.

I do it, but I dont advise anyone else to. I would have to write essay even then it is too easy for other people to added bacteria and viruses to wounds. I can understand it is of cultural interest, but please dont.

If you are a bleeder see a doctor to get advice on your first aid kit. As for the OP head wounds often run with blood and dont stop easily.

 

[Bluffer]

The obsession with quicklot does seem a bit OTT, military medics actually have access to other kit and drugs to stop bleeding and quicklot has been off the menu for years now (I have been out on the ground in role recently and used the latest kit before anyone tells me I'm talking horlicks).

Getting back to this specific case as described by the originator, I'm sticking with my advice that Celox gauze and a normal wound dressing may be worth carrying (run it past your doctor or practice nurse first, tell them Tim from the Internet sent you).

 

[The Infamous Grouse]

The obsession with quicklot does seem a bit OTT, military medics actually have access to other kit and drugs to stop bleeding and quicklot has been off the menu for years now (I have been out on the ground in role recently and used the latest kit before anyone tells me I'm talking horlicks).

Getting back to this specific case as described by the originator, I'm sticking with my advice that Celox gauze and a normal wound dressing may be worth carrying (run it past your doctor or practice nurse first, tell them Tim from the Internet sent you).

Isn't Celox a blood clotting agent?

 

[Quixoticgeek]

What's next, carry a defibrillator rather than learn CPR?

a defib helps along side CPR it does something different.

The availability of Automatic Emergency Defibrillators has lead to a dramatic increase in the number of successful resuscitations. The British Red Cross Event First Aid volunteers are now getting approximately a 70% success rate on resuscitations where they have an AED.

This is why AED's have been deployed all over the place, from station platforms, to supermarkets and cricket grounds. If someone made an AED that was say the size of two iPhones back to back, then I would add it to my handbag as a matter of course. They really do make a significant difference.

However, we are now diverging away from the OP's original question. To reiterate, a pair of IDF dressings really are all you should need for the sort of injuries you can expect during bushcraft.

About the only situation where I might consider anything else, would be if there was a chainsaw involved. But that is a whole different topic.

J

 

[Fraxinus]

Interesting thread this.
Head wounds always seem to bleed more so the OP might like a bump hat http://www.ace-safetywear.co.uk/store/safety-baseball-cap.html?gclid=CIjniJbO9r0CFZDKtAoddAoAFQ
as a precaution rather than a fix.
Enjoying the tourniquet debate but a tourniquet used in a head wound situation is a bit drastic but very effective solution

Our friend Tristar777, I feel, should carry a decent standard type FAK, go with a buddy when possible, carry a mobile phone and a GPS unit when in the woods so assistance and location are easily arranged and do what any sensible sea kayaker will do, let someone know where he is going and what time he is due back + what to do if he does not check in. If the local GP has any kit specific to his need then that should also be carried, at all times not just for woodland days (as would a diabetic).

Just my take
Rob.

 

[Bluffer]

The Infamous Grouse - yes, Celox is a haemostatic and has largely replaced Quicklot because it is safer for the casualty and the medic (ask anyone who has applied Quicklot and had the wind blow it into their eyes and throat).

Quixoticgeek - agreed about the dressings being alll you need for expected injuries, however, the originator specifically stated that they were taking medication for thinning the blood, which is an important personal factor in decision-making and so a fair question

 

[Johno76]

Just to add my two cents regarding catastrophic wounds that have been mentioned that may require quick clot or a tourniquet. Someone already mentioned that quick clot is out and pretty much never used, I agree. Tourniquets on the other hand have a place in my kit, I carry the CAT purely as I go off on my own a lot where there may be no phone signal or no one around to help. Arterial bleeding will most likely send you into shock rather quickly and blood loss is obviously rapid. If using a tourniquet of any type, even an improvised one, do not apply at the groin for femoral artery damage, apply tourniquet directly above wound and seek help, same goes for arm wounds. Lots of people like to take a gransfors out and use for chopping, even experienced foresters have had a bad axe bounce and taken half their (or someone elses) leg off. I'm not telling everyone to go out and buy a CAT, its personal choice should the worst happen, better to keep your blood in rather than out.

 

[Bluffer]

All good points Johno.

I wonder what people here would do with a penetrating abdominal injury, when placement of a CAT would not be possible and Celox gauze/granules would be ineffective?

Whatever the 'latest kit' there would still be people who wanted the next thing.

Wasting money on things they will never use or will never use properly because they haven't been shown?

 

[Johno76]

I know what you mean mate, I have seen someone putting a chest seal in their kit before... I have only seen a CAT used twice on tour and even though I know how to use it I hope I never have to. Some folk will go to great lengths to have all the gucci kit but like you said, all the gear... No idea.

And if you are in danger of taking a 7.62 to the abdomen or chest when doing a bit of buchcraft.... Then you're doin it wrong lol

 

[mrcharly]

All good points Johno.

I wonder what people here would do with a penetrating abdominal injury, when placement of a CAT would not be possible and Celox gauze/granules would be ineffective?

Big dressing, firmly wrapped up. Keep casualty horizontal and warm. Fetch help ASAP.

FWIW, I did first aid training as a 12-year-old, in Australia. We covered CPR (which has changed a lot now), rescue from water. We also covered dealing with broken limbs, major cuts, burns, blue-ringed-octopus stings and snakebite. All the first aid assumed that we *didn't* have access to any sort of first aid kit, so we were taught to improvise. 30years on and I can still remember which items of clothing are good to adapt for slings, compression bandages etc. Must have been a damn good course.

 

[Oakleaf]

With deep respect to all the posts - obsessive or otherwise - there is only one correct answer...

Just take two other Bushcrafters along and sit back whilst they discuss, the debate, then argue, then shout, then fight over what best to do. It may take between 4 seconds and half a day depending upon which two Bushcrafters you choose. Thus it maybe an idea to select three suitable pairs so you can adjust the entertainment time to suit the severity of your wound/ bleed out rate - so that unconsciousness hits before you are left to ponder your situation.

I'll fetch me coat....

 

[xylaria]

With deep respect to all the posts - obsessive or otherwise - there is only one correct answer...

Just take two other Bushcrafters along and sit back whilst they discuss, the debate, then argue, then shout, then fight over what best to do. It may take between 4 seconds and half a day depending upon which two Bushcrafters you choose. Thus it maybe an idea to select three suitable pairs so you can adjust the entertainment time to suit the severity of your wound/ bleed out rate - so that unconsciousness hits before you are left to ponder your situation.

I'll fetch me coat....

so good an answer it has its own smily.

I have been outside and havent cut off any of my limbs yet, Titch got close to chopping his own foot off, but that is another story.

 

[Graveworm]

so good an answer it has its own smily.

I have been outside and havent cut off any of my limbs yet, Titch got close to chopping his own foot off, but that is another story.

+1

In the UK and the rest of the civilian world by far the highest incidence of survivable fatal injuries are extremity bleeding and tension pneumothorax. Knowledge and a phone are by far the best preparation you can get but Tourniquets and chest seals, whilst they can be improvised, are not a bad addition, (one of the tube bomb victims was saved by an off duty WPC's Tourniquet that she carried). Bespoke items work better and faster with a lower risk of complications and if you are on your own a tourniquet is much easier than direct pressure, and will keep stopping bleeding after you pass out. That said as has been said it's very rare so Don't have nightmares do sleep well .. /Nick ross

 

[Oakleaf]

I love that smiley/ emoticon! Wish there was a 'hat off to you'one!

 

[The Infamous Grouse]

The Infamous Grouse - yes, Celox is a haemostatic and has largely replaced Quicklot because it is safer for the casualty and the medic (ask anyone who has applied Quicklot and had the wind blow it into their eyes and throat).

Quixoticgeek - agreed about the dressings being alll you need for expected injuries, however, the originator specifically stated that they were taking medication for thinning the blood, which is an important personal factor in decision-making and so a fair question

Totally agree; when I say quikclot, I meant the treated sponge, not the granules, I didn't know you could even still get that!

 

[ged]

When I was running sweat shops in Derbyshire we had table cutters and band knives which would easily cut through a ten-inch pile of layered cloth, or your arm.

The operators were trained to use things like chain-mail gloves to prevent accidental amputations. Someone's already mentioned bump caps but I'm sure that there are kevlar items which would give valuable protection in the event that you slipped while carving a spoon.

If you're at particular risk of bleeding, in addition to taking professional medical advice it must be worth looking around for some personal protective equipment.

 

[Blaidd]

Re. Use of sugar/honey for wounds. It has been used in much of the world for centuries, here's a recent study from the Univ. of Wolverhampton.

http://www.wlv.ac.uk/Default.aspx?page=24330