With all the recommendations, if help isn't at hand and the bleeding isn't stopping, then a tourniquet is the last resort only. If its "just" a bad cut, things like pepper, sugar, or tea bags can be useful to help clotting. I also carry a couple of sanitary towels.
Stop Heavy Bleeding. Advice Please!
- Thread starter Tristar777
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xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Plants rich in tannins have pulled the sides of wounds together since humans found flint tools so the coffee thing probably works on ordinary cuts on normal people. I use plants like the juice from dock stems however I don't recomend it for others. There is stuff you can get an from doctors /wound nurses that is used for bleeders. I used to visit an old guy on warfrin his was given a pack incase he cut self doing wood work. I don't know what was in the pack. Ask at your gps surgery.
Funny you should mention tannins. I had my wisdom tooth out the other day. Recommendation by the dentist was if you haven't got wound pad to put on gum and its bleeding, use a tea bag because the tannins constrict blood. Interesting I thought!
They were "out of fashion" for a while but in the meantime they are issued to front line troops once more.
(Body armour and incredibly proficient trauma medics have greatly increased general survivability but massive trauma will still get you if you bleed out.)
They are able to be fixed with one hand...
I think in this case the worry would more be about bleeding out. Horrible how quickly that can happen....
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
There is a lot plants that pull wounds together. Bramble leaves, willow tips, anything related to mint, any dock, pine I could go on. Some plants like the mints and pines also disinfect. However tannin can pull a wound so much it scars,I have also got warts from wounds I have treated with plants. I also know from experience a cut that is really peeing blood oesn't stop with herbs. Plants should be interesting as a cultural remedy not a first aid kit for serious problems.
I'd advise you to use Celox and pressure dressings rather than anything else.
http://m.spservices.co.uk/item/CELOX_CeloxHaemostaticAgent-15gSachet-Single_157_70_3497_1.html
http://m.spservices.co.uk/item/CELOX_CeloxHaemostaticAgent-15gSachet-Single_157_70_3497_1.html
Lots of studies have shown this not to be the case. Surgeons routinely apply them for 2 hours in theatres for limb operations. There was a study of 400 + applications in Iraq. Average time for a was 70 minutes went up to 3 and a half hours no one lost a limb, no one had compartment syndrome and less than 2% had nerve palsies and only one patient persisted after 6 days. If you have a bleed that needs a tourniquet and you are not getting to hospital within 3 and a half hours then risking losing a limb is the lesser of the evils.
As I said before, probably best to see your GP as he knows the details of your condition, and what medication you are taking. Lots of conflicting information in this thread, and advice to use everything from gunpowder and superglue, to yarrow and coffee. These things might be of use under normal circumstances, but it's probably best to tailor your first aid kit to your own circumstances..
Yarrow, tannins, caffeine, Liquorice etc are vasoconstrictors. Like a styptic pen, they can work on minor wounds because they can reduce flow in the capillaries and small veins, they probably won't help so much in the "Heavy bleeding" subject of this thread.
Completely agree with this. I carry a pair of IDF dressings everywhere for this express reason. If I can't treat it with two IDF dressings, I'm not going to be able to treat it. If it's not enough to warrant opening the dressings, it's unlikely to need any treatment...
Yes and no.
As an untrained individual, a tourniquet will do more harm than good in most situations. That said, the Combat Application Tourniquet that was developed for the troops in Afghanistan has been attributed for the substantial survival rate of battlefield wounds. It is designed to be applied by the casualty themselves in situations where severe traumatic bleeding is in progress, i.e. when a lower leg has been blown off by an IED. When you have lost a substantial section of the leg, and the use of a CAT is all that stands between dying of blood loss, and not dying of blood loss, you use the CAT. Yes, it may mean that in reality you lose the leg a bit higher up, but you live. Soldiers are coming back from theatre having survived injuries that just 10 years ago would have left them as a body bag recovery.
Out in the field, there is perhaps some argument for having a CAT in your pack. But, you have to ask yourself the following questions:
- Are you trained to use one?
- How likely are you honestly to have the sort of injury where the use of a CAT is the difference between life and death?
If you answer yes to the first question, then by all means carry one. If you honestly think that the answer to the second question is "pretty likely" you need the training, or to re-evaluate what you're doing.
Note, for the head wound the OP describes, no tourniquet is going to help.
A word of caution on the use of products like quickclot. Whilst they have been proven in combat situations to have a positive effect on the outcome of the injury, this effect may not translate over to the domestic environment. If you have a wound covered in quickclot and turn up at A&E in the back of an ambulance, you have a chance that the staff treating you either do not have the equipment to remove the quickclot, or do not have the knowledge in how to deal with it, this can lead to the wound being worse than it needs to be. Afterall you may jump the gun and use the quickclot unnecessarily. It is also worth noting that some of the clotting agents available on the open market have an exothermic action and can actually create a burn on the wound, this is likely to make healing a longer process.
As in all these things, evaluate if it really is necessary for you to be carrying the item, and if you should perhaps get training first.
A cute nurse?
Oh how we would all love to travel with a cute Nurse or Paramedic.
J
Hi Guys
fun thing is I asked in hospital about this very thing the other day. since i have just been put on blood thinners.
Was advised to treat as I would have before, but to use a larger more absorbent dressing , than I would have used before in the past.
And if the bleeding soaks through, apply a second dressing over the top of the first dressing and seek medical advice if the bleeding persists.
Bob
fun thing is I asked in hospital about this very thing the other day. since i have just been put on blood thinners.
Was advised to treat as I would have before, but to use a larger more absorbent dressing , than I would have used before in the past.
And if the bleeding soaks through, apply a second dressing over the top of the first dressing and seek medical advice if the bleeding persists.
Bob
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The CATs are good for holding damaged tissue together, they will anchor arteries, etc and can be used in tandem. But we are not talking traumatic amputation in this case, so not relevant.
What will stop the bleeding is the application of Celox gauze or Celox granules, followed by a dressing.
What will stop the bleeding is the application of Celox gauze or Celox granules, followed by a dressing.
Ive never understood the fascination with clotting agents, in ten years ive never seen a wound that requires anything more than the basic methods and this includes arterial lacerations, traumatic amputations etc. The only real sods to stop bleeding are warfarinised patients with nosebleeds. Even if you are on blood thinners then your "Clotting ability" will be closely monitored and balanced within a small therapeutic range to help prevent nasty "clotting problems" while minimising risk of spontaneous bleeds.
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I always have a quikclot sponge. Not that I've ever had to find out; but it claims to clot warfarin affected blood. you can get the sponges from Heinnie Haynes; £11 for the small and £15 for the large. I also carry a tourniquet; these are fine in absolute emergencies, but need to be released after 10-15 minutes to avoid gangrene, it can be reapplied but shouldn't be necessary.
I also carry chest seal and a combat dressing. Basic standard issue "blow out" kit for when it really isn't your day!
That coffee tip sounds interesting, I'll have to give it a go.
I also carry chest seal and a combat dressing. Basic standard issue "blow out" kit for when it really isn't your day!
That coffee tip sounds interesting, I'll have to give it a go.
I don't get the obsession with quickclot etc.
If you have a wound bleeding externally, then pressure+bandage/dressing will work.
If you have a wound bleeding internally - well then you'd better hope the pressure works.
Are people here seriously thinking of pouring quickclot into a wound? So many medical professionals on this forum have said "Don't do it.". Me, I'm going to listen to them.
Besides, isn't bushcraft all about learning how to use what is around you? What's more easy to guarantee is available; hand pressure and then a wad of cloth + bandage, or some synthetic 'combat ready' specialist dressing?
What's next, carry a defibrillator rather than learn CPR?
If you have a wound bleeding externally, then pressure+bandage/dressing will work.
If you have a wound bleeding internally - well then you'd better hope the pressure works.
Are people here seriously thinking of pouring quickclot into a wound? So many medical professionals on this forum have said "Don't do it.". Me, I'm going to listen to them.
Besides, isn't bushcraft all about learning how to use what is around you? What's more easy to guarantee is available; hand pressure and then a wad of cloth + bandage, or some synthetic 'combat ready' specialist dressing?
What's next, carry a defibrillator rather than learn CPR?
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